Renato Canova defends Federico Rosa, "(It) is not possible to control what they individually do."

ok coevett your annoyance has hit critical. for hte last f*ckiung time enough with the lies and accusations. I HAVE NEVER THREATENED TO SHOOT ANYONE. if you cant stop this bullsh*t then i will make it my personal agenda to have your racist a$$ banned for life. you dont think before you spew accusations like this do you? no your just some pasty peice of sh*t racist annoying a$$hole. its one thing to speculate on who might or might not be doping, but i am really sick and f*cking tired of your 50 different handles and claiming i threatened to shoot renato. i never did and im sick of your bullsh*t. you want to annoy everyone with your childish sh*t? fine, you want to be racist? fine, but you keep spreading this lie that i threatened to shoot someone and its on you worthless f*ck....shut up or man up, im over it steve. and yes i already emailed wejo about this and i will flag every single racist comment you make from hear on out. enough is enough you lyain coward F*CK....sorry man so sorry your "clean white" WR has been beaten, stop crying to us about it and take it up with your buddy coe, you whiny worthless f*ck

here is this idea, since coevett mouths off so proudly, boastfully, arrogantly and full of his bullsh*t lies, who is down do to some paypall and have someone expose who he really is? i figure that is the only way to either seriously reduce his annoying bullsh*t or it will make him leave out of pure embarrassment. im down to toss in a $20, who knows maybe enough people do it, he gets exposed and LEAVES

RAdcliffe D wrote:

https://www.drmichaeljoyner.com/the-biological-passport-the-paula-radcliffe-controvery/

im confused? why reply this to me? i have seen the light now, Endurance Placebo Option doesnt work, its just a saline solution withe some fancy bears packaging. plus havent you heard some angry racist a$$hole keeps saying i threatened to shoot people, crazy right? like i said who i was, where im from, what college i went to, my PRs and where they were set, and what i graduated with, and this crazy racist brit guy who hates everyone has some sick twisted level 12 stalker agenda to harass me and spread lies....like so crazy right? he hates renato, unless he can side with him to attack me. he hates rek, unless he can side with him to attack me.

LR...not where dreams become reality, nope

LR....where anonymous a$$holes can act ten foot tall and bulletproof.

step up coevett, who are you? i dont understand how you can call me a liar and a coward, when you are the LIAR and the coward, on top of the fact you use 50 different handles as well. what is so terrifying in letting all of LR know who you are? after i said who i was, renato and rek stopped their super bullsh*t attitude they had towards me, strangely your attitude changed for the worse. just curious how many people on here do you think arent annoyed by your constant racists annoying bullsh*t? maybe you are kept around cause the annyoing bullsh*t you start up causes click bait, i dont know, maybe you are steve ovett and my theory is correct, they keep you around cause your buddy buddy with coe, and coe is buddy buddy with paula and wejo paced paula....it might be a stretch, but its prob just as crazy that some worthless hobby jogger guy who knows nothing of the sport can cause this much drama seems a bit much.

m!ndweak wrote:

spade detector wrote:

You are as crazy as you are dumb. That isn’t me, I’m not a regional UK coach, I’ve never threatened you, and I’ve never called for you to be doxxed. You can provide nothing to support these claims because you are incapable of telling the truth as you lack the mental capacity and integrity.

here is this idea, since coevett mouths off so proudly, boastfully, arrogantly and full of his bullsh*t lies, who is down do to some paypall and have someone expose who he really is? i figure that is the only way to either seriously reduce his annoying bullsh*t or it will make him leave out of pure embarrassment. im down to toss in a $20, who knows maybe enough people do it, he gets exposed and LEAVES

...I literally just said that I've never called for him to be doxxed and couldn't care less about finding out who he is. He's shown time and again that you can't believe anything he types, so he has no credibility, and therefore his stances have no credibility.

rekrunner wrote:

The thing about Olaf Schumacher's statement of "up to 1 minute" for 10K, is he doesn't say under what conditions this opinion of an up to 1-minute maximum upper bound of benefit applies. From this statement, we don't actually know his estimate for the 28' runner, already trained at altitude. And as far as I know, he has not coached any runners, with or without EPO, to perform at that level, so while he may be a doping expert for the IAAF, making expert determinations of which athletes likely doped, he is not a performance expert for top athletes.

I think there's enough in his academic background to qualify him as having some expertise with the performance for top athletes. Part of the ABP process is correlating hematological anomalies (i.e., high Hgb & RET% changes) with the athlete's performance history, e.g., key events such as the Olympics, WC, road competitions, etc. (remember the hematological anomalies that were retrospectively detected in Jeptoo's ABP from Boston where she won the race and set a CR, and the time & title was annulled for doping, though her EPO positive didn't come until several months later pre-Chicago).

Dr. Schumacher has co-authored dozens of papers on a wide variety of subjects relating to doping, training, hypoxia, etc. He has co-authored several papers on altitude training, which I would think you would find very interesting.

I found this paper very interesting on performance profiling of athletes:

Nice stock whitewash response by "Jim" on that page avoiding the troubling details in the story ....

Doped to the Max wrote:

Part of the ABP process is correlating hematological anomalies (i.e., high Hgb & RET% changes) with the athlete's performance history, e performance profiling of athletes:

I thought Canova had piles of data on his athletes proving that when Hgb and RET went up the athlete's performance went down. Can he not publish his findings somewhere to end this debate?

He is either unwilling or unable. The small sample he was willing to publish showed that he had dopers in his camp and that he misrepresented what the data actually said. He also claims that there is secret data in spain, but we are not allowed to see it. Ridiculous. Keep going down this path. You might be able to find some very interesting blood value levels for Sondre.

canova hypothesis wrote:

I thought Canova had piles of data on his athletes proving that when Hgb and RET went up the athlete's performance went down. Can he not publish his findings somewhere to end this debate?

Hey big liar : show me when I said there is secret data in Spain, or quit to shoot stupidities, inventing everything for trying to attack my integrity.

ding ding ding wrote:

He is either unwilling or unable. The small sample he was willing to publish showed that he had dopers in his camp and that he misrepresented what the data actually said.

He also claims that there is secret data in spain, but we are not allowed to see it.

Ridiculous.

Keep going down this path. You might be able to find some very interesting blood value levels for Sondre.

canova hypothesis wrote:

I thought Canova had piles of data on his athletes proving that when Hgb and RET went up the athlete's performance went down. Can he not publish his findings somewhere to end this debate?

Sondre is 100% clean! I could bet my life on it! His problem before Canova coached him was that he did his distance work too slowly. But running that faster pace on high mileage as 180-220 km per week will sooner or later cause injuries out of overtraining as happened to Sondre.

Renato Canova wrote:

Hey big liar : show me when I said there is secret data in Spain, or quit to shoot stupidities, inventing everything for trying to attack my integrity.

Why can't Lucy come to the club?

Aye Carumba.... wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

Hey big liar : show me when I said there is secret data in Spain, or quit to shoot stupidities, inventing everything for trying to attack my integrity.

Why can't Lucy come to the club?

cause she is too busy disobeying renato and injecting herself with the Endurance Placebo Option, not knowing how to inject it correctly though i have a hard time believing she got busted....she must have been framed

m!ndweak wrote:

Aye Carumba.... wrote:

Why can't Lucy come to the club?

cause she is too busy disobeying renato and injecting herself with the Endurance Placebo Option, not knowing how to inject it correctly though i have a hard time believing she got busted....she must have been framed

Ok, I’ll tell Fred and Ethel.

a) Just looking at the subject line -- Chepngetich is Kenyan, and Dubai refers to the marathon. It is certainly not about sprinters, throwers, and walkers. b) So long as we keep that in mind when always keeping 43.6% in mind, because they are inseparable. It's impossible to say from an average over so many disparate events, how dirty just the endurance events dominated by Kenyans are. Also difficult to translate absolute numbers to percentages with no indication of athlete population size. c) "Seppelt's data" is not enough to draw such a clear conclusion. First, it is a count of medals, not medalists. It was 146 endurance medals won by 76 medalists, with no medal breakdown indicated, in a database with more than 800 athletes with abnormal blood data. Connecting this to distance events, the Sunday Times showed us that, in 9 "dirty" events, this suspicious medal count was highest among 1500m medalists, including several Russian women known to be on steroid cocktails, and two race walking event medalists (20km and 50km), dominated by Russian men. For the events dominated by Kenyans, the number of medals, and medalists, is smaller, and the concentration is less. You assume the very thing under doubt, that there are "Ds" which are PEDs for these top altitude trained athletes. It's also logical that mid-pack runners would be more tempted to dope, believing it will take them to the next-level.

casual obsever wrote:

a) The thread is not "about Kenyan marathon distance running".

b) We all know that IAAF events include sprinting.

Are the endurance events a lot dirtier?

...

Given how high up the typical distance running nations a la Morocco and Kenya are, they are certainly not cleaner than the average.

c) Seppelt's data showed that doping is more concentrated on the top. For example, gold medals were more suspicious than bronze medals.

It is also logical, for PEDs improve performance, and there is more (money and fame) to gain at the top: higher rewards, more risk takers.

Because to reliably show effect, you need reliable data I know you don't have for any of these athletes. Several of these athletes even ran slower, in periods we know they were doping. I can't provide any exculpatory evidence, because they are guilty of doping. I don't deny their guilt.

Top Kenyans On The Sauce wrote:

How do you know that these cases with top talented Kenyans do not show effect? Can you provide some specific pinpoint evidence for each and every case? Just don't sit there in your Ivory Tower and act like you know everything when you can't provide any exculpatory evidence for each every doping case listed here.

I didn't look at all 140 publications -- do you have one in mind that shows he has any special insight into what it takes to develop top performance for distance running? Academic background won't make him a good coach for a talented athlete. I have to disagree with your second statement: Nothing about ABP requires correlating blood values to performance, beyond the mere existence of a performance near (and after) a test with abnormal values. Performance profiling looks like an interesting idea. I appreciate the search for new approaches. From his 2018 paper, I see it is still an undeveloped idea: "The actual performance metric(s) that should be used in an APM is yet to be determined." He rightly indicates that it will not be easy to factor out many confounders. I think such an approach is possible with steroids, especially for women, where the effect is significant. But my hunch is that it will not be possible to develop an "APM" for endurance running. Quickly scrolling, many of his papers have to do with biomarkers, and detecting doping. While this is important for anti-doping, my personal interest is on the question of performance, rather than detection. Did you have a study in mind that looked at altitude training, or blood doping, with a view on performance -- hopefully with less pitfalls than the Pitsiladas studies.

Doped to the Max wrote:

I think there's enough in his academic background to qualify him as having some expertise with the performance for top athletes. Part of the ABP process is correlating hematological anomalies (i.e., high Hgb & RET% changes) with the athlete's performance history, e.g., key events such as the Olympics, WC, road competitions, etc. (remember the hematological anomalies that were retrospectively detected in Jeptoo's ABP from Boston where she won the race and set a CR, and the time & title was annulled for doping, though her EPO positive didn't come until several months later pre-Chicago).

Dr. Schumacher has co-authored dozens of papers on a wide variety of subjects relating to doping, training, hypoxia, etc. He has co-authored several papers on altitude training, which I would think you would find very interesting.

...

I found this paper very interesting on performance profiling of athletes:

More importantly, Dubai is not a Kenyan marathon(er), and Rosa is neither a Kenyan nor a marathoner.

Plus, the revised, allegedly more accurate and informative, thread title says nothing about a Kenyan or a marathon:

"Renato Canova defends Federico Rosa, "(It) is not possible to control what they individually do""

But by all means, keep trolling. Or read the thread...

Moving on...

You are wrong again.

Steroids were irrelevant for that count:

No assumption, no doubt, just your trolling as per usual. Kiprop and Jeptoo and Sumgong and so on know that better than you, as do the scientists.

m!ndweak wrote:

step up coevett, who are you? maybe you are steve ovett and my theory is correct