Sebastian Coe vs Said Aouita - 1500/mile race - Who would win?

Toru Taniguchi wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

Coe wore Nike from 78 (possibly earlier), and was sponsored by them from 79, up to and including the LA OLympics.

In 85 he wore Diadora, and did so for the rest of his career.

Why did Nike drop Coe in 1985? Were they on the Cram bandwagon?

It seems in the 1984 OG, a lot of runners were wearing Nike spikes/shoes.

Cruz, Coe, Aouita, Cova and Lopes all won with Nike.

I think it was more the case of Coe dropping Nike.

Coe was upset that Nike pushed Cram as their big investment in the lead up to LA. After the games, Coe decided to leave Nike and join Diadora.

Deanouk wrote:

Toru Taniguchi wrote:

Why did Nike drop Coe in 1985? Were they on the Cram bandwagon?

It seems in the 1984 OG, a lot of runners were wearing Nike spikes/shoes.

Cruz, Coe, Aouita, Cova and Lopes all won with Nike.

I think it was more the case of Coe dropping Nike.

Coe was upset that Nike pushed Cram as their big investment in the lead up to LA. After the games, Coe decided to leave Nike and join Diadora.

That makes sense. I don't remember Nike making Coe-inspired runners.

Coe did end up being a Nike Ambassador until he became president of the IAAF.

Toru Taniguchi wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

I think it was more the case of Coe dropping Nike.

Coe was upset that Nike pushed Cram as their big investment in the lead up to LA. After the games, Coe decided to leave Nike and join Diadora.

That makes sense. I don't remember Nike making Coe-inspired runners.

Coe did end up being a Nike Ambassador until he became president of the IAAF.

We all know why Eugene won the rights to host the 2021 WC!

El Guerrouj would win. El Guerrouj.

P. Knight wrote:

We all know why Eugene won the rights to host the 2021 WC!

Yes. Because Coe asked his buddy Diack for help, who gladly obliged...

BBC 2015:

"When asked about the allegations, Coe told the BBC he "did not lobby anyone" over Eugene's bid, but "encouraged them to re-enter another bidding cycle as they had a strong bid"."

...

A BBC investigation has uncovered emails which claim Coe - an ambassador for sports giant Nike and then vice-president of world athletics - "reached out" to Lamine Diack with his support for Eugene's bid.

...

"Diack announced a surprise vote on whether to bypass a normal bidding process, and simply hand the 2021 games to Eugene."

Nothing to see here, just some friends supporting each other.

Justthefactsm’am wrote:

El Guerrouj would win. El Guerrouj.

True. Only because Aouita was Coe's training + blood doping + hgh and El G was Aouita + EPO.

Justthefactsm’am wrote:

El Guerrouj would win. El Guerrouj.

Coe 2 Olympic golds > El Guerrouj 1 gold and 1 silver.

Are Coe and Aouita actually the same height?

They are listed the same but Aouita seems shorter.

Both have long stride lengths relative to their height.

Johann Schmidt wrote:

Are Coe and Aouita actually the same height?

They are listed the same but Aouita seems shorter.

Both have long stride lengths relative to their height.

I think Aouita runs funny. Now Coe; he's smooth...real smooth - like poetry in motion. So, on form alone, I give Coe a 10 & Aouita a 5.

Coe be da man!

Here's my take wrote:

Johann Schmidt wrote:

Are Coe and Aouita actually the same height?

They are listed the same but Aouita seems shorter.

Both have long stride lengths relative to their height.

I think Aouita runs funny. Now Coe; he's smooth...real smooth - like poetry in motion. So, on form alone, I give Coe a 10 & Aouita a 5.

Coe be da man!

Why does Aouita run funny?

Ilg wrote:

Here's my take wrote:

I think Aouita runs funny. Now Coe; he's smooth...real smooth - like poetry in motion. So, on form alone, I give Coe a 10 & Aouita a 5.

Coe be da man!

Why does Aouita run funny?

Rolling head action when he is sprinting.

:: And what about Ovett's career progression? Couldn't break 60 secs for 400m, didn't run under 1:50 for 800 until Moscow, then runs 3:30 age 28. ::

What are you talking about?

Ovett ran 47.5 for 400m in 1974 when he was 19. And he ran 1:44.09 in 1978, two years before Moscow. And I don't understand the problem with running a 1500m PB (PR if you're American) at age 28.

RunnerAndCyclist wrote:

:: And what about Ovett's career progression? Couldn't break 60 secs for 400m, didn't run under 1:50 for 800 until Moscow, then runs 3:30 age 28. ::

What are you talking about?

Ovett ran 47.5 for 400m in 1974 when he was 19. And he ran 1:44.09 in 1978, two years before Moscow. And I don't understand the problem with running a 1500m PB (PR if you're American) at age 28.

Ovett broked 1:50 comfortably in the early 1970's!

Ovett came back from a knee injury in 1982 when he ran into a fence.

I'm sure if that didn't happen, Ovett would have been at the top in 1500m/mile for a few more years.

Bourdain wrote:

RunnerAndCyclist wrote:

:: And what about Ovett's career progression? Couldn't break 60 secs for 400m, didn't run under 1:50 for 800 until Moscow, then runs 3:30 age 28. ::

What are you talking about?

Ovett ran 47.5 for 400m in 1974 when he was 19. And he ran 1:44.09 in 1978, two years before Moscow. And I don't understand the problem with running a 1500m PB (PR if you're American) at age 28.

Ovett broked 1:50 comfortably in the early 1970's!

Ovett came back from a knee injury in 1982 when he ran into a fence.

I'm sure if that didn't happen, Ovett would have been at the top in 1500m/mile for a few more years.

LOL, did anyone really post that (Ovett not breaking 60 secs etc)? I scrolled back and can't see the actual post that was quoted.

Ovett was ranked I think the top British 400m runner in his age group by over a second when he was 15 or 16, and ended up winning a high quality international championship 5000m (thrashing Buckner and Hutchins who were legit top 5 guys) after Olympic 800 gold and world records from 1500 to two miles. I doubt if any clean athlete has had a greater natural range.

I agree he would have been at the top for a few years if he hadn't ran into that railing. He would also have gone sub 3:30 in 78 if he had been interested in clock chasing back then.

I wonder what Ovett could have achieved in 1982, especially after a great 1981 season.

That fence related injury as innocuous as it was, essentially was the start of Ovett's decline.

Also I rate Ovett comfortably better than Aouita in the all time 1500m/mile.

good ole times wrote:

80s fan wrote:

But I agree with you in that Ialso think he was on drugs - I feel that Ben Johnson was scapegoat in 1988.

No reason to single out Aouita or Ben Johnson. That was the Wild West back then, with even more people doping than today's 50% or so.

Are you sure? I thought that was a clean(er) time period where, aside from the sprinters & throwers, very few distance runners doped? ? I've heard that was real running back then. Nowadays it seems so many are on a "program" of some sort, from hard core EPO & HGH/T to microdosing to all these "TUE" drugs we hear about.

Yes, there's a Steve Ovett documentary on YouTube that starts when he was still in hospital in the winter of 81/82 after the operation on his leg, and it's clear that it would have been career ending for a lot of athletes. It's tragic that he came back to the extent of challenging for the first World Championships in Helsinki (just a little short of race confidence) and then breaking the WR again, but then suffered an even worse setback in 84. He had a great winter training in 83/84 and would have given Coe a real race in the LA 1500 final if he hadn't had the bronchitis/smog problems there, as well as likely lowering his 800m pb to sub 1 :44. For Ovett to perform in the 5000m like he did in 86 after all his injury and health problems of the previous 4 years, at the age of 30 and being at the top for 12 years is remarkable. Sub 13:00 for sure if he had taken up the event seriously at his peak.

1982 would have been interesting as he and Coe had signed a contract to race each other at (I think) four different distances. As Coe was running poorly, but not knowing at the time he had a health problem, I imagine it would still have happened and Ovett might have won all four races handily. He would also have surely won the double at the European Championships that year.

Are you sure? wrote:

good ole times wrote:

No reason to single out Aouita or Ben Johnson. That was the Wild West back then, with even more people doping than today's 50% or so.

Are you sure? I thought that was a clean(er) time period where, aside from the sprinters & throwers, very few distance runners doped? ? I've heard that was real running back then. Nowadays it seems so many are on a "program" of some sort, from hard core EPO & HGH/T to microdosing to all these "TUE" drugs we hear about.

Maybe I'm naieve, but I agree. Aouita and Johnson should be singled out because their career progressions were so extremely shady. Not to mention that Johnson got popped and there is a stack of circumstantial evidence that Aouita doped (links to doctors arrested for supplying peds, accused of encouraging athletes to dope, being the first elite Moroccan runner when so many of the flood that came after him were busted etc).

A fit Ovett would have beaten Cram in the 1982 EC in my opinion.

He ran such a poor tactical race in the 1983 WC. I'm sure he would have won a medal if he just positioned himself better.

Surprisingly, Aouita in the same final took the lead from 400m out!