Is Eliud Kipchoge on the juice?

+1

best of the best wrote:

think_about_it wrote:

So essentially, what you're saying is that there can be no 'best-of-the-best'. Your argument makes no sense in the larger context and in view of the history of sport. There have always been great athletes who consistently outperformed. Think of other superstars:

Wayne Gretzky

Michael Jordan

Babe Ruth

Tiger Woods

Roger Federer

Lionel Messi

All dopers by your argument, because how could they maintain their performance level against other 'elite' athletes without some drug.

Forget Babe Ruth. Of the rest the only one who is not widely believed to be a doper is Gretzky. Woods is without doubt, Federer is probably the most doped sportsman of all time, and Messi grew up taking all manner of drugs, and surely still does - he's the bionic man.

Maybe your accusations are accurate, but there is zero evidence to support them. Your claims should be prefaced be with "Imo" or "I believe". Or can tell by just looking at them?

Of course he is. But that's okay, 'cause it's pretty freaking cool to see a dude almost break 2:00 hours in the marathon. Whatever way it happens.

Phantasy Star wrote:

The age thing is the most interesting element to me. Kipchoge is not 33, he's probably closer to 40!

But yeah, juiced to the max.

He looks closer to 50 in the face, but that's one chiseled body and such a smooth, tranquil running style - he's the best! ?

best of the best wrote:

think_about_it wrote:

So essentially, what you're saying is that there can be no 'best-of-the-best'. Your argument makes no sense in the larger context and in view of the history of sport. There have always been great athletes who consistently outperformed. Think of other superstars:

Wayne Gretzky

Michael Jordan

Babe Ruth

Tiger Woods

Roger Federer

Lionel Messi

All dopers by your argument, because how could they maintain their performance level against other 'elite' athletes without some drug.

Forget Babe Ruth. Of the rest the only one who is not widely believed to be a doper is Gretzky. Woods is without doubt, Federer is probably the most doped sportsman of all time, and Messi grew up taking all manner of drugs, and surely still does - he's the bionic man.

Folks mentioned here are in skill based sports and less about muscle power.. so doping won't help them much

True this, sadly wrote:

you walked into this one wrote:

There is no way to know.

These are words to live by. They should be the motto of these boards.

As the psychologist Danny Kahneman says:

"A puzzling limitation of our minds is our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world..."

Might be worth sharing that quote with the majority of scientists of this world.

Federer? Try Nadal. Comment knows nothing about tennis.

Rupp is definitely not clean. Most runners in the Nike Oregon Project are on heavy doses of L-Carnitine which is illegal in large concentrations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/sports/nike-oregon-project-alberto-salazar-dathan-ritzenhein.html

killashags wrote:

Rupp is definitely not clean. Most runners in the Nike Oregon Project are on heavy doses of L-Carnitine which is illegal in large concentrations.

If that's true then why don't the Russian & Kenyan doping doctors/coaches use L-Carnitine instead of EPO & blood doping they've been busted so often for? ?

Ask wejo and rojo if they think Eliud Kipchoge is doping. I bet they will say no, they don't believe he is.

do they know something? wrote:

Ask wejo and rojo if they think Eliud Kipchoge is doping. I bet they will say no, they don't believe he is.

I'll drink to that. ?There's got to be some clean WR holders especially post-ABP, and I agree Kipchoge seems to fit the bill.

Kenya lousy in every sport except distance running ----and that they have been proven to be enormous cheats.

Yes he probably drinks OJ (orange juice) to carb load just like you and me.

Not sure about the NOP-type accusations though.

0990j wrote:

Kenya lousy in every sport except distance running ----and that they have been proven to be enormous cheats.

They're pretty friggin good at soccer. My soccer coach in elementary school was a Kenyan.

With Eliud, it is difficult to assess. For starters, I love what Kipchoge has done for running in general. As far back as 2008, when I saw Kipchoge live, I knew that with his fluid stride and perfect mid-foot impact with the ground that he would be great.

Eliud has all of the tools and the form to have successfully transitioned from the 5k to the marathon. All things equal, he could easily make that jump.

I would like to think that he is clean.

But there is also a skepticism in this regard.

When I saw Kipchoge, he ran somewhere in the 13:08 range for a 5k.

On a flat course (basically) with no real wind.

His 2:00:25 in Italy was done in flat perfect conditions.

Furthermore, if extended linearly, his 5k pace, itself, if evenly distributed through a marathon matrix would give him a time of 1:50:53.

This means that the difference between his marathon at 5k pace and his marathon at ideal pace is less than 10 minutes.

Or...his 13:08 at 5k and his 14:17 5k pace across 26 miles....are far too close to not have some help. I can't even conjecture what the help is....but when your marathon pace is only 8% slower than your 5k pace (at race pace, both on street), you have to be getting artificial help. Like it or not.

Use data to prove me wrong, not feelings.

Stoppit Smith wrote:

When I saw Kipchoge, he ran somewhere in the 13:08 range for a 5k.

On a flat course (basically) with no real wind.

His 2:00:25 in Italy was done in flat perfect conditions.

Furthermore, if extended linearly, his 5k pace, itself, if evenly distributed through a marathon matrix would give him a time of 1:50:53.

This means that the difference between his marathon at 5k pace and his marathon at ideal pace is less than 10 minutes.

Or...his 13:08 at 5k and his 14:17 5k pace across 26 miles....are far too close to not have some help. I can't even conjecture what the help is....but when your marathon pace is only 8% slower than your 5k pace (at race pace, both on street), you have to be getting artificial help. Like it or not.

Use data to prove me wrong, not feelings.

His 5000m PB is 12:46, which that alone is suspicious. His 5000m PB pace is a 4:07 mile pace. His official marathon PB is 2:01:39, which is a 4:38 mile pace. His marathon pace is about 88% of 5000m pace. Now I know on other threads, Canova and others have done calculations on comparing elite runners 5000/10000 pace to marathon pace. For comparison, Bill Rodgers 5000 to marathon pace is, 89% of race pace. So from this point of view his 5000m pace to marathon pace isn't that suspicious. But, a 12:46 5000m PB and a 2:01:39 marathon world record is suspicious. Sure there is hard work, talent, genetics, improvement in shoe technology etc. But to say that he doesn't raise any red flags is foolish. Not saying he is dirty, just that it is suspicious.

0990j wrote:

Kenya lousy in every sport except distance running ----and that they have been proven to be enormous cheats.

+1

Based on how I've been running the past few years my half thon pace is around 95% of my 5k road pace. I think if I did a full thon it would be over 90% of my 5k pace.

Banana Bread wrote:

Based on how I've been running the past few years my half thon pace is around 95% of my 5k road pace. I think if I did a full thon it would be over 90% of my 5k pace.

Have you considered trying ultras? Maybe you can do an ultra at 85% of 5K pace.