It's too damn hard to run a sub 5 mile

elusive dreams. wrote:

I threw on some spikes and ran a solo self-timed 1200 time trial in 3:45.12 today. Splits were perfectly even - 1:15, 2;30, 3:45. It was just short of an all-out effort. I could have gotten 3:44.x on that solo run if a million bucks were on the line, but not a 3:43.

I'm planning on heading to Arizona next Saturday to race the mile.

This is going to be a close one. Tapering, coffee, and race-day adrenaline might get you to a 4:59.9 1600 if the weather and other competitors cooperate. But a sub 5 mile by the end of the month looks to be just a bit out of your reach.

Sub 5 in 5 easy steps wrote:

elusive dreams wrote:

It's now a 4:43 1500 with a 70 second last lap. Splits from yesterday's race:

400 - 1:17

800 - 2:36

1200 - 3:51

1500 - 4:43.55

This is apparently the first thread that comes up when you Google "sub 5 mile" and letsrun, so here's how to end that multi-year quest of yours:

Step 1: Buy Dragonflies. The spikes, not the animal.

Step 2: Drive to a track and locate the starting line of the mile run.

Step 3: Warm up.

Step 4: Put on the Dragonflies.

Step 5: Run sub 5.

I got the Dragonflies last month and ran last week's 3:45 1200 in them. That was the last day of a 25 mile week, and the weeks before that were in the 23-25 MPW range. Since that's not going to cut it for sub 5, I did a YOLO taper the past few days and cut mileage to almost nothing:

Saturday (2/20) - Sat - 800m warmup jog, 1200 in 3:45, 500, 400, 300, 200, 400 with plenty of rest in between. 3 km cooldown jog.

Sunday - 4 miles, moderate effort

Monday - 2 mile warmup, sprint 50m, jog 50m for one lap. Then 2x200m at 800 race pace.

Tuesday - 6x200, first two reps a little slower than mile race pace and last four reps a little faster than 1500 race pace. Half mile jog afterwards to cool down.

Wednesday - jog one lap, do two 100m strides

Thursday - off

Friday (today, 2/26) - plan to jog a few laps, do 2-3 100m strides, and maybe run a 70" 400.

Saturday - mile race

elusive dreams. wrote:

Saturday - mile race

Any live links for tomorrow's race?

I'll get the letsrun logo tattooed on my back if he goes sub 5 tomorrow.

socalcush wrote:

good luck with your next effort. for what it's worth, my recommendation would be to listen maybe for the first 200m or 400m split and then throw away the watch and just compete...

cush

Thanks! My race is at 6:30 Arizona time / 5:30 So Cal time, and I'm appropriately seeded in heat 1 (the slowest):

The weather's good if the forecast holds up - no rain, no strong winds, and temps in the mid 60s. The race plan is:

200 - 36" - 37"

400 - 1:14 - 1:15

600 - 1:52

800 - 2:30

I'm not planning on looking at the watch after that. Just going to focus on pushing somewhat hard on lap 3 and kicking it in with 300 - 350m to go...

Sub 5 in 5 easy steps wrote:

elusive dreams. wrote:

Saturday - mile race

Any live links for tomorrow's race?

There's no live video that I know of, but the results will be at:

There's going to be video posted on Milesplit after the race, but that requires a subscription to watch.

The sub 5 will come, I have been in the same position as you before. These barriers honestly become more mental than physical if you get stuck for a long time. After dancing around sub 5 for 2 years in high school with 5:01, 5:03, etc.. In my final senior meet, I was able to make it happen running 4:50. I think I had the physical capacity to run sub 5 for a long time yet I struggled with the mental portion. When I finally went out to the track just looking to run and have fun I finally was able to break it. I think I looked at the clock maybe once at the halfway point when I did break the barrier. My advice, go out there and have a great time, enjoy the pain and the hurt. Believe the fitness is there and just go out there and race and it will come. Goodluck.

The easiest way to run a sub 5 is to listen to Salazar and lose weight until it happens.

Not the healthiest way, but definitely the easiest. Running high volume will speed it up. Run it at your fastest possible easy pace. Find ways to go faster without effort.

Volume isn't so much "aerobic" training as a lab where lots of trial and error makes you run more efficiently.

Your “high mileage week” is a wreck. It’s mostly garbage miles. No wonder you’re getting hurt. Most of your miles should be 8+. Try a tempo or fartlek on Wednesday. You’re also going to need some longer intervals like 6s, 8s, 1ks, 1200s, and even 3200s to build your strength.

With your speed you could run sub5 doing with 35 mpw.

If most of your races are on Saturday why wouldn’t you do interval work on that day?

Congrats man, 5:03 to 4:50 is a huge drop!

I drove the 400ish miles across the desert yesterday, got stuck in traffic, and arrived about 50-60 minutes before the start of my race (I had planned on arriving earlier than that to recover from the drive). While that was probably enough time to warm up, the whole thing seemed to be quite rushed.

Everyone's starting pace felt much faster than what I thought I could hold for the entire distance, so I was DFL by a huge margin for almost the entire first lap. When I passed the half mile mark and saw that the clock read 2:36, I pretty much knew that I had no hope of going sub 5 that day, and even breaking my old PR (5:13.83) wasn't a certainty. So I took yours and socalcush's advice and just focused on the race and not the watch. I managed to pass three guys and was closing in on (but ultimately didn't catch) a fourth runner as well.

I didn't go sub 5 that night, but that effort did get me a 6 second PR. My official splits were:

409m - 1:18.85 (~77.1" lap)

809m - 2:37.21 (78.36" lap)

1209m - 3:53.49 (76.28" lap)

1600m - 5:06.03

1609m - 5:07.88 (74.40" lap)

Proof (since I wasn't allowed to post under the same name that I used before):

congrats on the PR--those never come easily, so treasure it. if you're interested in the road mile in two weeks, let me know; you'd have plenty of competition in your time range--lots of dudes (and a couple of girls) hoping to break 5 on a slightly downhill bike path in orange county. shorter drive than arizona...

cush

Bad Wigins wrote:

The easiest way to run a sub 5 is to listen to Salazar and lose weight until it happens.

Not the healthiest way, but definitely the easiest.

The OP says he's 112 lbs, so there's not much weight left to lose.

It's hard to tell from the videos he posted, but he might be "skinny fat". Low body weight and low BMI, but too much body fat and not enough muscle.

elusive dreams! wrote:

I didn't go sub 5 that night, but that effort did get me a 6 second PR. My official splits were:

409m - 1:18.85 (~77.1" lap)

809m - 2:37.21 (78.36" lap)

1209m - 3:53.49 (76.28" lap)

1600m - 5:06.03

1609m - 5:07.88 (74.40" lap)

Congrats! 6 seconds down, 7 more to go.

masters sub5 wrote:

With your speed you could run sub5 doing with 35 mpw.

He ran a 5:07 yesterday without exceeding 25 MPW, so he could probably do it off of 30 MPW. It's more of a mental battle at this point.

At that time (pre pandemic), most of the tracks I had access to were closed on Saturday due to youth football & soccer games. The track was almost always available on Sundays, so I did my interval work then. I've since changed it to Saturdays, and a typical week last month looked like this:

Sunday - 7 mile long run

Monday - 6x200m (~30-31" with walkback recovery), 2.5 mile run

Tuesday - 5 mile run

Wednesday - 6 mile run

Thursday - off

Friday - 8 100m strides, 2.5 mile run

Saturday - 800m warmup jog, 100, 1600, 600, 400, 300, 2.4 mile cooldown jog. I ran those intervals hard but usually didn't time them. Recovery was quite long.

Total - 29 MPW

socalcush wrote:

a sub-5 on the road, even with a downhill advantage, may give you some insights into the overall effort involved, or more importantly, it may de-mystify the effort.

socalcush wrote:

congrats on the PR--those never come easily, so treasure it. if you're interested in the road mile in two weeks, let me know; you'd have plenty of competition in your time range--lots of dudes (and a couple of girls) hoping to break 5 on a slightly downhill bike path in orange county. shorter drive than arizona...

cush

Thanks! I didn't sign up for the road mile because I was too lazy/cheap to buy vaporflys. Just out of curiosity, how did it go?

Anyway, I PR'd in the 1500 earlier tonight and ran a 4:40 without having to drive to Arizona. It's the longest I've ever held a 4:59 1600 / 5:00 mile pace, so I think I have a rough idea of the overall effort needed to break 5. This was done off of 28-29 MPW (see the previous post for my typical weekly training schedule), and my splits were:

300 - 56.64 (75.52" / lap pace)

700 - 2:12.57 (75.93" lap)

1100 - 3:27.76 (75.20" lap)

1500 - 4:40.52 (72.77" lap)

Official results:

That's the equivalent of a 5:02 mile. You're almost there, just bump the mileage up by another 5 MPW.

help me pls wrote:

i managed another 5:02 again this summer before losing time/motivation to focus on the mile. maybe next year! :(

help me pls wrote:

in the last couple years i have run 5:02 and 5:01 in races and 5:01 in a solo time trial. i feel OP's pain. sub 5 is the impossible dream. i hope OP will stop by and update us. i haven't given up yet and i hope he hasn't either.

On the off chance that you're still on letsrun and reading this, how did it go? The Dragonflies that someone mentioned earlier didn't exist at the time of your post and would definitely have gotten you under 5:00.

i managed 4:45--downhill maybe gave us a few seconds (about a 35 foot descent). i was probably 4th or 5th, no official results, and everyone was responsible for their own times. the course had cones at 440 marks, no complaints about accuracy that i know of (i don't use a garmin). quite a few people around 5-flat and under. we're doing another one on april 17th, same course. one of the girls i train with is still trying to break 5 (she's done it before, but maybe not since she's had kids--she ran 5:10), and she's organized both. i plan on pacing her this next one. come on out and join us if you're interested (no entry necessary)--info is on cal coast track club's facebook page,

cush

I'm impressed that the OP was able to find a track meet in California. That's dedication!