Goucher releases statement: Further evidence will only be shared with USADA.

Still no word from Rojo, he obviously didn't see this as important

So when a NOP bashing article comes out I expect him not to comment on that either

this is a troubled woman who backed herself into a corner.

where are the brojos to back her up?

sound of .......CRICKETS.......

as i have told you all along she needs help and is running her mouth into litigation .

next up is fleshman backing down .

bank on it.

Wow. I have browsed through the posts in this thread. I'm surprised by the negativity toward the Gouchers from what looks like a broad segment of LR posters.

I have generally defended Salazar but even I don't think that badly of Goucher. I take her testimony given to Propublica as sincere. I believe she was troubled by how Salazar operated. And she is right that Salazar did do something illegal with the distribution of subscription meds and hiding items from custom officials. The dilemna there is that its outside the scope of USADA rules.

The problem all along is that she never gave any evidence of illegal doping under WADA/USADA rules except in the most vague circumstantial way.

For those who were waiting for Kara to throw down a hammer blow of evidence on Salazar, and now feel betrayed, you only have yourself to blame. This story never had any similarities to Lance Armstrong. All these allegations and new evidence only pointed to what Salazar has been honest about all along, 1. He tries to use every advantage he can within USATF rules and, 2. He's kind of an @hole.

Even the circumstantial Androgel evidence that LR posters use to connect the dots to get to illegal doping is based on the openness of Salazar. Why do we know about it? Because Salazar was shouting to people in airports that he was carrying Androgel that belonged to him. He was running an experiment using his sons in plain sight at Nike facilities. Something that just could have been done at his home if he wanted to hide it. There is no evidence that Salazar had some secret inner workings protected by a code of silence.

All we are left with is Rupp and Salazar, being alone in a room that had a bottle of Androgel. Salazar had a prescription for the Androgel and Rupp had 20+ drug tests he passed in the course of year. Have fun trying to get the USATF to hand down any punishment on that.

as an athlete who was on one of these very contracts (swoosh all my career), I can attest this is standard on EVERYONE's contracts, even galen rupp. A perfect case in point would be Chris Solinsky running Falmouth as "tempo" run some years back. He publicly stated his goal was only to run around 5min pace, but the reality was that he was getting *very* close to that 6mo figure, which meant he had to do a "race" in order to meet the letter of his contract. he could have very well done a rinky dink 5k in portland, but that is a great way to piss off Cap and everyone else, so he at least had the good sense to bring a little publicity to his tempo run at falmouth.I was initially in kara's corner, but this is sounding truly pathetic. she could very easily have run a rinky dink 5k at 9min pace, thus meeting the letter of her contract, and nike would have *had* to continue to pay her. if Alysia Montano can run at almost bursting, then miss goucher could have easily jogged a local 5k and kept her money. her choice, and her choice alone, albeit one which she can twist down the road (i.e., today) to fit a chosen narrative. disappointing as it severely impacts her credibility, imo.

If you listen to the LetsRun podcast they do touch on the Kara Goucher piece. Rojo says he wasn't really disappointed in her statement, he never expected more evidence and what he did think she might be releasing was insight into the personal stuff (relationship between Salazar, Adam and her). He believes she didn't want it to become a soap opera and realized the personal angle wasn't going to add anything to the investigation substance of her claims and decided not to pursue that angle. I disagree with his take but in fairness he has commented on it.

Ferratin wrote:

Still no word from Rojo, he obviously didn't see this as important

So when a NOP bashing article comes out I expect him not to comment on that either

Anyone know if this 6 month thing is what caused Montano to run 8 mos prego? I was extremely put off by that as I thought it was a publicity stunt just to draw attention to herself- but if it was to keep a paycheck coming in for her kid, that's a whole different story and it'd change my opinion 180.

Kara is done. Her statement is amateur hour, like dealing with a 10 year old. Says one thing, does another, and makes threats and promises she has no ability to deliver on, then tries to play the "poor feminine me" card.

She made up this stuff, then started the argument, now she won't respond to a very strong response calling her a liar. I was especially waiting to hear 1. Did she actually take thyroid meds before she ever went to NOP, and; 2. Why she wrote that she loved AS and now says she left because he was pushing meds on her.

If the redacted emails made me look like a liar, I sure would release the whole email chain and explain. Especially after I promised to bring forward that evidence.

ADAM AND KARA GOUCHER need to ride into the sunset together (with Colt of course). We here are sick of her constant moaning in an attempt to bring attention to her family and Oesille. Whatever it's called? It's disgusting. GET OUT OF HERE! PLEASE!

LOL @ NOP Klown fish. Salazar needed to ride into the sunset when he collapsed sitting next to Rupp. He only road off for 14 minutes. No need to come back. He is a worthless coach and even more worthless as a human being; is he is human at all.

NOP Klowns wrote:

LOL @ NOP Klown fish. Salazar needed to ride into the sunset when he collapsed sitting next to Rupp. He only road off for 14 minutes. No need to come back. He is a worthless coach and even more worthless as a human being; is he is human at all.

Salazar > you. You need the Lord Jesus.

not my real name. wrote:

I was initially in kara's corner, but this is sounding truly pathetic. she could very easily have run a rinky dink 5k at 9min pace, thus meeting the letter of her contract, and nike would have *had* to continue to pay her. if Alysia Montano can run at almost bursting, then miss goucher could have easily jogged a local 5k and kept her money. her choice, and her choice alone, albeit one which she can twist down the road (i.e., today) to fit a chosen narrative. disappointing as it severely impacts her credibility, imo.

Also, if she was so upset about Nike "suspending" her, why did she move to another Nike team?

oiakjshjshah wrote:

NOP Klowns wrote:

LOL @ NOP Klown fish. Salazar needed to ride into the sunset when he collapsed sitting next to Rupp. He only road off for 14 minutes. No need to come back. He is a worthless coach and even more worthless as a human being; is he is human at all.

Salazar > you. You need the Lord Jesus.

Jesus did not favor those who put themselves above others.

Bilbo wrote:

not my real name. wrote:

I was initially in kara's corner, but this is sounding truly pathetic. she could very easily have run a rinky dink 5k at 9min pace, thus meeting the letter of her contract, and nike would have *had* to continue to pay her. if Alysia Montano can run at almost bursting, then miss goucher could have easily jogged a local 5k and kept her money. her choice, and her choice alone, albeit one which she can twist down the road (i.e., today) to fit a chosen narrative. disappointing as it severely impacts her credibility, imo.

Also, if she was so upset about Nike "suspending" her, why did she move to another Nike team?

As someone stated in another thread, you don't sign with a group, you sign with Nike. Just because Kara left Alberto doesn't mean she could leave Nike.

exactly. she still *had* a nike contract, she just didn't get a paycheck for 6mos (per the letter of the contract). when she went to schumacher, she was still under contract, so it was easy for jerry to take her on, as no "contract negotiations" were needed.

to the poster asking about montano, I think Alysia was already off of her contract or in between contracts? can't recall exactly but I don't think running outdoors was in order to prolong a current contract, though I could be mistaken.

as mentioned in my original post, "running" 9min pace meets the letter of the law, so to speak, so the whole "nike suspended me for 6mos" could have been easily avoided by simply running a local 5k in portland at a jog pace. Cap wouldn't have been very happy about it, but there would have been nothing nike legal could do about it, as she would have satisfied the conditions of the contract that she signed.

ComeOnRojo wrote:

If you listen to the LetsRun podcast they do touch on the Kara Goucher piece. Rojo says he wasn't really disappointed in her statement, he never expected more evidence . . .

Ferratin wrote:

Still no word from Rojo, he obviously didn't see this as important

So you are saying Rojo doesn't even take Kara at her word anymore? Because she explicitly told the press she would be providing evidence shortly- That must mean she has about zero support left in terms of people believing her.

Lord??? wrote:

oiakjshjshah wrote:

Salazar > you. You need the Lord Jesus.

Jesus did not favor those who put themselves above others.

The Lord Jesus Christ.

John 13:13, "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am."

I don't even care anymore that she isn't offering more evidence, but it would be SO EASY to eliminate so much confusion if she just came out and said "I didn't have a prescription for Cytomel in [insert appropriate timeframe] when Alberto physically handed me a bottle of Cytomel pills." The fact that she didn't simply clear up this point of debate is so frustrating for me, and while it doesn't make her a liar, it doesn't help her case.

ThisIsFutile wrote:

I don't even care anymore that she isn't offering more evidence, but it would be SO EASY to eliminate so much confusion if she just came out and said "I didn't have a prescription for Cytomel in [insert appropriate timeframe] when Alberto physically handed me a bottle of Cytomel pills." The fact that she didn't simply clear up this point of debate is so frustrating for me, and while it doesn't make her a liar, it doesn't help her case.

Salazar claimed, in his open letter, that she was the one who introduced Dr. Brown to NOP (which probably means she was already his patient before joining NOP and that Dr. Brown may have been the one who first diagnosed her thyroid condition). No response on that point so far from the Gouchers, which I take to be an admission that it is true.

ThisIsFutile wrote:

I don't even care anymore that she isn't offering more evidence, but it would be SO EASY to eliminate so much confusion if she just came out and said "I didn't have a prescription for Cytomel in [insert appropriate timeframe] when Alberto physically handed me a bottle of Cytomel pills." The fact that she didn't simply clear up this point of debate is so frustrating for me, and while it doesn't make her a liar, it doesn't help her case.

What you're confused about is whether it matters if you have a prescription or not for somebody else's bottle of prescription medicine. See the label: "Caution: Federal law prohibits the transfer of this drug to any person other than the patient for whom it was prescribed." Not "a" patient.

There is a huge preponderance of evidence against Salazar at this point, and Goucher is correct that adding more would make little difference, but publicizing it might tip Salazar off to the investigators' next move. It's likely USADA told her to stay quiet.

I smell something bigger going on, too, that USADA might be after. There are just too many fast people suddenly appearing from nowhere, and disappearing just as suddenly. Incredible performances punctuated by crap performances from the same individuals, suggesting a new in-competition drug is being used, likely a new stimulant since sprints are especially crazy this year. Something much better than NOP's erg boosters, inhalers and androgel. And undetectable.

I believe that track is thoroughly corrupt all the way to the top, but there is a chance that anti-doping is trying to raise its game by attacking the doping infrastructure rather than the end-user. They slapped Tyson Gay's wrist but threw the book at Jon Drummond. Maybe Gay's their stoolie now, reporting on Nike.

But for NOP, Salazar has already damned himself by confirming the androgel test, and admitting giving a purported testosterone-booster to a 16-year-old. It doesn't matter if it was legal, just as it doesn't matter that transfusions were legal in 1984. Just like the US cyclists who took blood that year, he will forever be considered a doper.

Bad Wigans, you make a good point and that thanks for citing Federal law. I tend to disagree with the notion that NOP is thoroughly corrupt and that there is enough evidence,to reach this conclusion, but I think it will be an interesting situation it if turns out that Salazar's sins boil down to transferring prescription drugs for one patient with a prescription to another patient with a prescription. I know that LRC will want to burn him at the stake, but I don't know, I don't think he could fairly be criticized of "doping." I know that people want to see training as hard work on the track and not in the lab, and that's a fair opinion to have. I don't mind including legal science into the mix, but thats just my opinion. Also, does anyone have a law to cite regarding him mailing hidden pills (assuming they are the pills he says they are)? Certainly he's made some questionable decisions, but to say he and his athletes are guilty of doping seems unfair to me.