Discussion of Deadspin's Article: The Sexual Harassment Claims That Brought Down Toledo’s XC Coach

My point being, I guess, that talking about Kertesz's own issues can make it sound like there's some kind of grey area here. In reality, there isn't. I'm not a big believer in absolutes, but the world of collegiate XC runner is such a contrived, constructed things that specific rules do exist. And in situations like this one it really is black and white.

dunno if you know wrote:

the biggest joke is the fact people are still reiterating the same information. Hadsell admitted to his wrong doings and resigned. He isn't trying to make out he did nothing wrong--he has already admitted to his inappropriate behavior. However, the unfounded, sensationalized rubbish LR anonymous users are making is pathetic. The pedophile claims, priest analogies and the sexual harassment claims are so unecessary. Bottom line is sexual harassment isn't harassment when both sides consent to it. So why not keep it in context...as a coach his actions were wrong, in an everyday situation NO law has been broken.

True, in general. But if he did drive drunk, then a law absolutely was broken. And that's not an unsubstantiated rumor like the rest of the crap on LetsRun that you've mentioned. That's apparently from a number of sources on the team.

Yes, I agree with you, if this did occur then that is illegal. However, from the girls I have spoken to they have said that he was drunk, but he was not driving, they had a designated driver. I wasn't there at that time,so I have no first hand evidence, but in looking at the entire picture I do not believe a coach would conduct himself it that manner when he has several lives at stake, and his job. And before people start responding with "well he did partied with the team so he doesn't know boundaries..." and any other inane comments people feel the need to concoct, don't bother, because most of you haven't any knowledge of the situation, aside from bias, tabloid drivel.

He no longer is employed by UT so there is no reason for any further action to be taken.

Was Vergote the assistant coach who lived with Hadsell before she switched to coaching a different team?

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No.

Do you realize it was Human Resources who took the text messages off of Kertesz's phone? So for there to be claims of doctored texts is incorrect; you would be making a claim that the HR department at UT doctored the texts and the gave them to THE TOLEDO BLADE. That doesn't make much sense does it? I bet "when the truth comes out" it will just be the text messages without the blocked out names, because you can read every single text conversation between Hadsell and Kertesz on deadspin. Good day, everyone.

fuktard Kertesz deleted the messages before HR got her phone. You sound like a fool, do yourself a favor and shut up.

HR didn't doctor anything, they took the messages that were left on the phone.

Are you able to explain how he accomplished this? Unless you have a prior agreement in place (see Kwame Kilpatrick) cellphone companies do not store the information sent in texts. In some cases, cellphone providers don't even store the records of numbers texting other numbers for more than a couple of months. While people on various threads on various boards talk about the ability to "get a copy of their texts" from their cell provider, it's not at all that simple and in most cases simply can't be done.

KMB wrote:

It happens that Kevin obtained a print-out of his texts for October 2012 at some point before all of this hit the fan (or anyone even felt the slightest breeze from it) because he needed to get some phone numbers pertaining to his recruiting efforts. What this print-out shows is that there were nearly 1,100 texts exchanged between Kevin and "Andrea" in October alone, with hers slightly outnumbering his, and that on 21 of the 31 days of that month, she was the one who initiated the "conversation." (He has no plans to make anyone's life more miserable using this "evidence.")

Sadly, you are probably right. When Randy Heisler was let go from Indiana University for embezzlement, he was promptly hired at Ball State. It's as if Ball State could not have tried any less to find out anything about him. Hadsell will coach again and probably get a damn good job too. My conclusion is that although there may be a few decent humans coaching track out there (I know one personally), most of the coaches I have met are either blowhards, terrible teachers, negligent, incompetent, or just plain awful to be around. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that they never left college. They went from running on the team as an undergrad to grad assistant, to assistant coach and head coach. All the while never growing the f*ck up.

Er... wrote:

Are you able to explain how he accomplished this? Unless you have a prior agreement in place (see Kwame Kilpatrick) cellphone companies do not store the information sent in texts. In some cases, cellphone providers don't even store the records of numbers texting other numbers for more than a couple of months. While people on various threads on various boards talk about the ability to "get a copy of their texts" from their cell provider, it's not at all that simple and in most cases simply can't be done.

Pretty sure standards on this changes only in the past few months. Now you need a court order to get info in text messages from the phone company and even that only lasts 72 hours. You also need a court order just to get a record of who texted who and when. BUT - I think Verizon was last to do this and it was late in the last year, so the Coach could gave gotten them for last fall, or at least the info about who texted who and when, and he may have had to pay the cell phone provider a fee for that.

I think that you have a biased sample.

Let us Run wrote:

I'm fairly sure that Hadsell has posted on this thread.

Here is your evidence by the handle name... NotbeingIgnorant? (Not sure of the exact name from previous page that stated......

2. His last name is HADSELL. Not.. Handsell with an "N". Get it together.

Notice the "Get it together " which was also stated in the phone conversation.

ANYHOW, I admit I've been glued to this thread. Having daughters myself and seeing this type of behavior from a coach is disturbing. The coach is a mentor and should be professional in his job, not trying to be best friends or be personal with his athletes or abuse his authority.

As parents the best thing we can do is talk with our kids and let them know what is appropriate and what's not.

Some random parent wrote:

Here is your evidence by the handle name... NotbeingIgnorant? (Not sure of the exact name from previous page that stated......

2. His last name is HADSELL. Not.. Handsell with an "N". Get it together.

Notice the "Get it together " which was also stated in the phone conversation.

To you that's evidence that Hadsell and NotnbeingIgnorant are the same thing? You don't suppose someone might have just slipped that in there to fool easily confused people like you?

Not that I have any stake in any of this, but I really wish people as mindless as you would not procreate. The sad thing is, your daughters are probably going to be really hot and cause you fits as a result.

This coach clearly made some big mistakes. But I have never been able to understand why our society always paints adult women above the age of consent as victims every time there is a situation like this. (Coach-Athlete, teacher-student, etc...)

The question is, are the women able to consent to sex or not? If they are, why does it matter who they consent with? Why do we distinguish?

I'm always amazed that the feminists don't jump all over this as a huge insult. Society always says the women are manipulated, implying they are too stupid to decide to have sex with these people (like Hadsell) on their own accord. How is this not offensive and insulting to adult women?

I think the problem with his behavior is the impact it has/had on the team he was coaching because of what it does to the dynamic and it's clearly a conflict of interest. But I certainly don't think this adult woman is a victim. According to the law, she's perfectly capable of deciding who she has sex with, including her coach. If that's an issue for society, then perhaps we need to look at raising the age of consent. Just seems strange to me that the women are never held accountable while the men tend to get crucified in these situations, even though both are consenting adults.

I don't see the girls/women as being victims (unless more evidence of coercion comes out), but what has been described is pretty much the height of coaching idiocy. That is more than enough that, if verified, should be used to keep him from a position of any responsibility ever again. If it can't be verified, he'll just have to lay low until the smoke clears.

Handsell is not qualified to coach anyone.

The above two posts misunderstand the issues. The issue that is paramount is not about 18-22 year old women being able to make decisions for themselves and being mature. It is about someone in the position of authority over these people and with a natural high regard for that individual that makes the relationship asymmetrical in a manner that is not resolvable in general. I suspect that you will not find a single DI school that does not have rather strong rules in place about any such relationships (at a minimum, a la Texas, the coach/faculty member MUST inform his/her superior).

Hadsell crossed this line so often and without regard for the concept that there really was a line except for the possibility that he could be terminated for his violation. He behaved like a kid with a very high 'discount rate' that pushed such costs off into the semi-distant future. Well, the future is now.

Screw anyone who defends this prick. Coach/athlete is by it's very nature a PATERNAL relationship and anyone who chases their athletes IS guilty of a form of pedophilia/incest. Even if that is not what it is in the legal, sense, emotionally that is what's going on.

Yes they're "adults" but they're also vulnerable and immature, and are not to blame when a coach allows a situation like this to escalate- to say nothing of all the alcohol-related stuff which is awful as well.

Creeps like this give all coaches a bad name and shame on all the schools who let these incidents get swept under the rug.

GET THESE CREEPS OUT OF OUR PROFESSION.

Awesome, perfectly stated.