He got a pretty serious injury last year before XC and I read on Letsrun (so not a reputable source) during the 2011 season that Kramer would come back for a fifth year. Also, the rankings are so inaccurate, I would not get too worked up over those statistics, though I agree the system could be reworked a little bit to maybe only afford a region two auto-bids if they have two top 25 finishes the previous season, or something to that affect.
Nick Kramer hurt his hamstring or somethin and is cross-training. Calvin is running ND so we'll see if he's just resting up for that.
North Central soundly beats Calvin 54-96 at Notre Dame, though Calvin doesn't run Kramer. With Kramer it would have been within 15 points, but NC still would have won. Teams average 24:58 and 25:06, respectively.
Haverford doesn't look that great at Paul Short. Conditions couldn't have been that good, as they averaged 25:32, but Schillit is not running that well and their other returning all-american from xc (Sokas) was their 6th man in over 26 minutes.
Still lots of time until nationals though.
observerofthings wrote:
North Central soundly beats Calvin 54-96 at Notre Dame, though Calvin doesn't run Kramer. With Kramer it would have been within 15 points, but NC still would have won. Teams average 24:58 and 25:06, respectively.
Haverford doesn't look that great at Paul Short. Conditions couldn't have been that good, as they averaged 25:32, but Schillit is not running that well and their other returning all-american from xc (Sokas) was their 6th man in over 26 minutes.
Still lots of time until nationals though.
To be noted- North Central also didn't run Crain for some reason (who was their number 1 guy two weeks ago at their illinois intercollegiates meet where he ran 2430ish). Throw him and Kramer into it and I think the outcome probably would've been the same, although of course both teams would've looked stronger
I heard Paul Short was pretty muddy/slow. It's been raining around here a lot, so it wouldn't surprise me.
Paul Short race conditions were only applicable to people in the 4-5th race. Other than being damp the course is a pancake. Times from ND were great for Calvin and NC, but you have to wonder whats going on with their top guys. Seems right now that the individual national title is wide open. Thoughts?
Conditions at Paul Short were crappy from the first race on.
This morning at Griak Tim Nelson ran with two or three teammates through 4K and then took off and ran everybody down. He only ran 25:30, but did it on a really tough course with a huge negative split. It will be interesting to see how he does in Madison in 2 weeks.
Geneseo men run solo at their home meet to incredibly fast times (for the course). Here's some context from the Atlantic Region thread:
http://www.leonetiming.com/2012/XC/GeneseoMen.htm
Geneseo throws down against no competition today.
1 Lee Berube Geneseo Alumni 24:28.8 4:56
2 1 Alex Brimstein Geneseo 24:40.2 4:58
3 2 Tom Clark Geneseo 25:16.5 5:06
4 3 Cohen Miles-Rath Geneseo 25:23.4 5:07
5 4 Ryan Moynihan Geneseo 25:26.9 5:08
6 5 Chris Mateer Geneseo 25:31.9 5:09
7 6 Patrick Wortner Geneseo 25:36.9 5:10
8 Bobby Henchen Geneseo Alumni 25:58.0 5:14
9 7 Chris Carter Geneseo 26:07.5 5:16
Fast times for Letch. I think only Kosgei, Heymann and Maher (regionals 2009) had gone sub-25:00 on the course before this meet. Geneseo looks like the clear number 1 in the region. Compare times to regionals 2009:
http://leonetiming.com/2009/XC/D3Regional/Men.txt
Looks like they're the real deal.
Atlantic wrote:
Geneseo men run solo at their home meet to incredibly fast times (for the course). Here's some context from the Atlantic Region thread:
http://www.leonetiming.com/2012/XC/GeneseoMen.htmGeneseo throws down against no competition today.
1 Lee Berube Geneseo Alumni 24:28.8 4:56
2 1 Alex Brimstein Geneseo 24:40.2 4:58
3 2 Tom Clark Geneseo 25:16.5 5:06
4 3 Cohen Miles-Rath Geneseo 25:23.4 5:07
5 4 Ryan Moynihan Geneseo 25:26.9 5:08
6 5 Chris Mateer Geneseo 25:31.9 5:09
7 6 Patrick Wortner Geneseo 25:36.9 5:10
8 Bobby Henchen Geneseo Alumni 25:58.0 5:14
9 7 Chris Carter Geneseo 26:07.5 5:16
Fast times for Letch. I think only Kosgei, Heymann and Maher (regionals 2009) had gone sub-25:00 on the course before this meet. Geneseo looks like the clear number 1 in the region. Compare times to regionals 2009:
http://leonetiming.com/2009/XC/D3Regional/Men.txtLooks like they're the real deal.
Compare to the 2008 Cortland national championship team at SUNYAC's 2008 on the same course:
1 Seth De Bois 25:00
2 Shamus Nally 25:01
3 Josh Henry 25:21
4 Justin Wager 25:21
5 Stephen Scrafford 25:35
6 Eric Stermer 25:40
7 Kyle O'Brien 25:42
Pretty comparable. Geneseo could be a title contender.
WashU not looking great at Louisville, with the exception of Sparks.
30 Sparks, Kevin JR Washington U. 24:29.70
116 Hamm, David SR Washington U. 25:27.71
118 Padgett, Andrew SO Washington U. 25:27.98
161 Senci, Ryan SO Washington U. 25:55.09
171 Baker, Brett SO Washington U. 26:00.87
186 Petterson, Elliot JR Washington U. 26:12.43
196 Patrick, Garrett SO Washington U. 26:20.26
any recent results for haverford? Things are looking to go North Central's way again this year.
gnarpow wrote:
Pretty comparable. Geneseo could be a title contender.
they changed the course, cutting out a crappy gravel part (and rumor is shortening it). imo geneseo is ranked too high. i get that they podiumed last year, but they lost their 2 AA's and 5 of their top 7! no one on this year's team is even close to competing at the level berube and novara were at, so how could they even compete for top 10 let alone be a "title contender"?
the atlantic as a whole seems less talented this year than last, with st lawrence and nyu also taking big hits to graduation and those being the only "elite" atlantic teams last year, and no one else looking SIGNIFICANTLY better (cortland and rochester have improved, but they certainly haven't jumped into contender status on a national level). the region was not as deep as the MW and NE last year, and now they also don't have the front runners (teams and individuals) they had last year.
I would love to see the region prove me wrong, but my prediction is they won't have any top 10 teams this year
SLU lost a ton and has taken a significant hit, but I am not sure what you mean about NYU, they only lost 2 of their top 10 from last year and Zitek was hurt most of the season and was nothing more than a 3-5 man most of the time. If anything they return a bunch of guys with another year under their belts. The AR is 4 teams deep than drops off hard, how high those teams will be at NCAA's will come down to how tight all their packs can be cause none have shown to have anyone who will be top 10 individually at this point. Top 6 type teams at NCAA's need to have 2 all americans, or all 5 scorers in the top 75 if no all americans.
[quote]gnarpow wrote:
the atlantic as a whole seems less talented this year than last, with st lawrence and nyu also taking big hits to graduation and those being the only "elite" atlantic teams last year, and no one else looking SIGNIFICANTLY better (cortland and rochester have improved, but they certainly haven't jumped into contender status on a national level).
Not so sure about that one. Haverford has always opened up slow, and this year is no exception. Though not a real indication of 8k fitness, they opened up at their home invitational with some pretty solid 4 mile times on a course that isn't exactly "fast":
13 806 Kissin, Peter Haverford College 19:39.10
14 817 Schilit, Jordan Haverford College 19:41.80
16 818 Sokas, Brian Haverford College 19:49.30
17 820 Stadler, Chris Haverford College 19:54.90
25 792 Bregman, Avi Haverford College 20:07.90
35 807 Marquardt, Charlie Haverford College 20:19.90
37 811 Milic-Strkalj, Ivo Haverford College 20:21.00
Paul Short was a mudbath again for like the 4th year in a row, so the times that they ran were pretty impressive given that the national championship team from '10 ran pretty identical times.
'12
69 Chris Stadler, Jr 25:10
84 Peter Kissin, Sr 25:22
91 Jordan Schilit, Sr 25:27
126 Avi Bregman, Jr 25:48
141 Joel Christian, So 25:54
183 Brian Sokas, Jr 26:12
185 Ivo Milic-Strkalj, Sr 26:16
'10
80 Joseph Carpenter, Sr 25:06 5:03
1890 84 Anders Hulleberg, Sr 25:07 5:04
1902 159 Jordan Schilit, So 25:33 5:09
1908 161 Chris Southwick, Sr 25:34 5:09
1878 171 Eric Arnold, So 25:40 5:10
1885 183 Lucas Fuentes, Sr 25:46 5:12
1896 203 Ivo Milic-Strkalj, So 25:59 5:14
Not so sure about that one. Haverford has always opened up slow, and this year is no exception. Though not a real indication of 8k fitness, they opened up at their home invitational with some pretty solid 4 mile times on a course that isn't exactly "fast":
13 806 Kissin, Peter Haverford College 19:39.10
14 817 Schilit, Jordan Haverford College 19:41.80
16 818 Sokas, Brian Haverford College 19:49.30
17 820 Stadler, Chris Haverford College 19:54.90
25 792 Bregman, Avi Haverford College 20:07.90
35 807 Marquardt, Charlie Haverford College 20:19.90
37 811 Milic-Strkalj, Ivo Haverford College 20:21.00
Paul Short was a mudbath again for like the 4th year in a row, so the times that they ran were pretty impressive given that the national championship team from '10 ran pretty identical times.
'12
69 Chris Stadler, Jr 25:10
84 Peter Kissin, Sr 25:22
91 Jordan Schilit, Sr 25:27
126 Avi Bregman, Jr 25:48
141 Joel Christian, So 25:54
183 Brian Sokas, Jr 26:12
185 Ivo Milic-Strkalj, Sr 26:16
'10
80 Joseph Carpenter, Sr 25:06 5:03
1890 84 Anders Hulleberg, Sr 25:07 5:04
1902 159 Jordan Schilit, So 25:33 5:09
1908 161 Chris Southwick, Sr 25:34 5:09
1878 171 Eric Arnold, So 25:40 5:10
1885 183 Lucas Fuentes, Sr 25:46 5:12
1896 203 Ivo Milic-Strkalj, So 25:59 5:14
Here's some context on the "shortness" of the Geneseo course as posted in the Atlantic thread by sunyac fan, a long time multi-year poster who was never affiliated with the Geneseo team (and in fact is now affiliated with another team in their region). He says:
"Go and find people who ran both Rochester and Letchworth Park. You'll see that Letch ran about 10 - 15 seconds slower on most women and 7 - 12 seconds slower on most men. Don't know what that proves other than Letch is probably the distance they say it was. I gpsed the women's and it was right on the money - 3.72 (took the tangents too). Didn't have time to do the men's."
The only people who are having trouble with the length of the course are regional "rivals" who don't want to admit that they're getting spanked hard this year by a national title contending team.
its not about what you have lost...never has been never will be.
I know it hurts, but everyone knows the course runs about half a mile short. At the very least. Lee Berube is an obvious 27-flat 8k guy.
Did you see CMS at pre nats??? Looking like the early season predictions are true. Watch out for 'em. #westcoastbestcoast