50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

L2b- Looks like you are getting closer all the time.

Great Plains- Depending on how you time trial, you might still be ready to try for that sub 30 min race as a solo TT can be more difficult to hold pace than a competitive race.

AK-53- Good race!

I've had hamstring injury for awhile that, didn't get all that much better in taking time off, so after getting a couple stretches to do from my chiropractor, I've been running very slow longer runs about 4 days a week, for the last 2 weeks, hoping to get well enough to transition into harder workouts to get ready for that Syracuse 5k in early Oct. Had hoped to be in mid to low 17 5k shape by now, but ran a 3 mile XC race a few days back in 19:16 (that is as fast as I felt comfortable to do without stressing the hamstring) so it looks like I won't be able to run at full speed for at least a couple more weeks. Will try that same race next week to see if there is much improvement, but probably won't be going to Syracuse.

Have been running off and on for a long time, but am lucky to have some knowledgeable friends that I can ask for advise on training.

Good running to all!

Rich

Guess I should clarify that last spring when originally making plans for the Syracuse race, I wanted to be in low 17 shape by now. I certainly wasn't expecting to hit low 17 after just 2 weeks of slow jogging.

Slow running seems to be my trend. Despite a really emotional week (work), I finished another 70 mile week, even though I didn't think I would -- it was more up and down with 2 really short days and a few longer ones. Started off slow this morning on my long run and started to really feel good about 25 minutes in. It was tough not to push the pace, but I didn't and enjoyed the run.

I've had good coaching and really bad in my many years. My HS coach had to make things up as he'd never coached a girl distance runner before. My college coach was a very young sprinter who did not have a clue how to coach - abysmal. An older college teammate, Pete Pfitzinger, was just starting to coach and he took me under his wing and wrote workouts for me (and I still have some of those old papers). I followed those workouts I ran my 15k, half marathon and marathon PRs then. I moved to MN and started running with a terrific coach (Kirk Elias) and great group and shattered my PRs for 1500/mile through the 10k with him. I've had some good success using Pfitz's workouts when I was training for a marathon/half.

I've also followed some training published in magazines and books (Daniels and Higdon) and both were disasters.

I've been self-coached for the rest of the time, with short bouts of work with some groups. I think I've figured out what works for me (and what doesn't), but do ask a couple of people that I really respect for their thoughts. I've read quite a few training books, too, as I coached HS for about 10 years.

Quite a solid week by my standards. Mon -1h50m rugged trail run plus a short bike and kyak; Tue - Kyak and short run with 3x1k 4.12 (uphill),3.30 (downhill), 3.57 (uphill);

Wed & Thu -80min rugged trail runs; Sat- 2 short rides around a 6.7k race on the trails, a tick under 27m.; Sun - 6.5k trail race, extremely wet and muddy right on 27m. ran this one in sub 26 last year but it was much drier.

Tonight (mon) I ran 12.5k loop around the town (trails) in 56m.

These days I just run for fun so don't really bother with a training plan, just do whatever I feel like on the day.

My main source of training info in younger days came from the sunday morning training group. This was led by Chris Wardlaw, coach of Monner and now coaching Buster. There was no shortage of top runners to pick up info from. Regulars included current top coaches like Ken Green, Nic Bideau and Ken Hall.

Later on I experimented with a more Kenny Moore/Benji Durden style of training week. This seemed to work ok for me.

Training starts off from house to live.

Go through every step of the way to heave.

Make sure, don't miss every pertinent to exist.

I meant internally is what we don't see.

Allow the air to liberate every organ to lead

Be in charge of every breathing room to learn.

Every living organ wants to flourish,

How can I allow that to happen?

By fasting two or three days!!

Henry

LucKY2B wrote “Question of the week. Where do you get most of your training advice?”

My succinct answer is today it is mostly from Brad Hudson's book, better objectivity about my own running experience, and better listening to my own body.

As a self-coached runner (my only track or running coach was in 7th and 8th grade) I have gotten advice wherever I can find it - fellow runners, people who sell me running shoes, magazine articles, books, ... I've even stooped as low as reading LRC forums. I have a library of Noakes, Daniels, Pfitzinger, … all of the main (and not so main) books since Fixx's Complete book of Running.

This quote from Hudson's book summarizes why I find it different from the others on my shelf:

“But I have discovered that the athletes I coach don't really need me for my knowledge of training, they need me above all to help them gain knowledge of themselves as runners, because therein lies the key to getting faster.”

My recent recovery from chronic Achilles issues for 4 years very much resulted from inward focus and analysis of the problem since I was not getting permanent relief from the myriad of prominent experienced medical professionals and athletic trainers. So, this Hudson quote appealed to me as I was able to resume training, and was very committed to NOT injuring myself any more.

I am presently “following” a plan revised around his “Marathon Level 2” (of 3) Training Plan. One of my most salient revisions is reliance on my own instinct for recovery days rather than what is in the plan. I am able to keep up with the hard workouts for the most part, however, this Over 50 body needs more recovery. Some recovery or easy days, I bike in lieu of easy run. Here's another Hudson quote that has revised my training significantly. “ In my own running career I had to learn the hard way that the details of any runner's next workout should be informed 90 percent by how he or she feels after today's workout and only 10 percent by the training plan that was created before the training process actually began.”

Frankly, I think I sucked as a (self) coach in my 20s 30s and 40s. Hudson's “Run Faster from 5K to the Marathon” has been a great aid to my present consistent, injury free training.

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Week 12

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Boy, really getting to it late this week. The day just got away from me.

Ran about the same as last week, 14 miles on four days. The knee is doing good. No pain during running or abnormal swelling afterwards. The MKoP has shifted to the back of the knee; it knots up after sitting with my leg bent for awhile.

I will say this, my body feels like a newbie again. My legs are a bit sore all over. I didn't think that 7 weeks off would cause the much of a degradation. I did also gain a few pounds. Will shoot to up my miles to about 18-20 miles next week. Not sure whether I should do it by increasing to 5 runs, or run an extra mile each of the 4 days. Progress is slow but steady. Just good to be out there at this point.

Topic: How far out do you set running goals? (Assuming you have any.) For me, I generally set my goals about 6-8 months in advance. So in November, I think about where I want to be by the start of July as far as training time and effort. Then in March, I think about where I want to be by the end of September. I also look to see what I was doing 1-year earlier as a calibration point. Of course, this year was shot to hell, which points out that all goals are not rigid.

Hope everyone is having a great week!

AK-53 ;That has to be a gratifying half after the severity of the injury incurred at NYCM. Kudos!

My own progress has been on the bike. I've been getting in about 125 miles per week, primarily on the roads. I struggled to avg.15 MPH in May, but did a 26 mile solo ride at 19.2 MPH on tuesday night, over hilly county trunks.

As to running, my mileage has been a scant 5-10 miles/week at 10 min./pace. All I can factor is I'm having enough fun on the bike, I don't want to jeopardise my fitness journey with another bad case of PF.

Past coaching interfaces have spanned the gamut. HS coach took us to state 80% 0f the years he was into it. The man was ahead of the times. Then came college...freshman coach with a 440 background.... bad deal. After 4 years of dealing with stress fractures I thought my career as a runner was over.

But my old HS coach rallied me..."just go long,don't worry about the speed". That pointer ,plus some Lydiard, got me back on track and I enjoyed 7 of my best years from 76-83.

Hate to be a downer, but I need to interject a cautionary note. The WI fitness community lost a stalwart this week. Long time Track and Cross country coach Dave Landgraf was struck by a car while biking. The injuries were mortal.

Dave was a Birke Founder and had done the event all its 38 years, most recently posting a 2:43 for the 51K at age 62. R.I.P. Dave.

Best of times to all the posters who make this thread thrive. DR

Bushman, thanks for sharing the sad news. Here's the announcement from the Birkie Foundation:

http://www.birkie.com/news_article/show/99268?referrer_id=104564

and a snippet of an interview with him:

http://www.birkie.com/news_article/show/99586?referrer_id=110392

Truly tragic. Dave was (and will continue to be) an inspiration.

That is sad Bushman. Dave was far too young.

I received sad news last week also. A great masters middle distance runner from the early days has passed away.

Bill Fitzgerald 1925--8/8/2011

A friend. A member of the Seniors Track Club of Southern California

Bill landed on Utah Beach, fought in the Battle of the Bulge and with the French Resistance.

He received a Medal of Valour from the French plus a Bronze Star, two Purple Hearts, battlefield ribbons and marksman ranking.

Bill then earned a B.A. in Geology from Boston College.

Bill Fitzgerald set numerous world records as a masters runner. He was inducted into the USATF Masters Hall of Fame.

The times I have for Bill Fitzgerald are:

7-6-73 800 1:58.1 48

7-6-74 800 1:59.5 49

6-9-75 800 2:01.1 50

7-7-79 800 2:04.8 54

7-4-80 800 2:08.9 55

7-10-82 800 2:09.4 57

8-27-83 800 2:13.0 58

1972 1500 4:10.4 47

1975 1500 4:18.5 50

7-12-80 1500 4:28.7 55

1972 1 Mile 4:29.5 46

1975 1 Mile 4:32:0 50

Bushman, sorry hear about Dave Landgraf. That's tragic.

Not a big week here--mostly recovery and coaching, and coming back down to earth.

The kids had their first xc meet, a hilly 2 miler, on Saturday. My younger son, still 13 was 2nd in the freshman race, and the junior was 5th in the varsity race. I did the open race--with only only about 7 runners--and won that, but my time??? Was only 2 sec/mile faster than the half marathon last week, and would have been tied for 17th in the high school division, and about 17% slower than the winners (legit 9:30 3200 types).

So I can hold a steady pace for a long time, even with moderate mileage. Just can't run fast for shorter distances.

40 miles running for the week and a tough 16 mile rollerski with a former multi-time junior national champ, and an up and comer (several top 15 finishes at jr. nationals last winter); umm, they hammered me into the ground after about 10 miles, not used to so much double poling.

muddy girl, the team is heading to Portand in October.

A decent 48 miles this week. Following my hard workout on Tuesday, after my Thursday easy run one knee/IT band was not feeling good. Since I am trying to be a little smarter now than I was when I was younger, I just walked about 45 min on Friday and Saturday. Things seem to be fine again for a Sunday tempo run with the kids. Two more weeks until the first XC race.

Ran a TAC certified 5 mile in 29:51. Goal was to break 30 minutes, it was close, but I'm pleased. I'm closing in on 51 years...still at it like a fool.

Mon-12.5k in 56, tue- bike and 6x400 barefoot on the golf course, wed- 90min steep trails, thu - as for wed., fri- 90min bike, sat- 6.8k trail race 27.04 1st 0/50. sun- 6.5k trail race 25.35 2d 0/50 had a red hot go 1st 2k in 7.30 slowed during tough section in the middle then ran last 2k in 7.45.

The 400s on the golf course were amusing. Our golf course gets flooded by eastern grey kangaroos, upwards of 400 at times. There was about 20-30 snoozing in the trees either side of the fairway. They all stood up at attention and watched this silly old fella dashing up and down. Probably wondering why I was so slow.

Sorry to hear of those deaths Bushy and Orville.

Planning my goals. Seldom look more than 6-8 weeks ahead. I do pencil longer term goals in my mind but my life tends to be a bit unpredictable so I don't lock it in until much later.

Gonna read this thread, but would just like to introduce myself. I'm 50 in April 2012. In about 5:10 Mile shape today. My 2012 goal = sub 5min Mile on an outdoor track. Just this week, for the first time in many years, and driven by my work situation, I began running "doubles". I'm starting with 30min jogs, but eventually there will be runs up to 45min, containing tempo, race pace surges, etc etc. It's an exciting new change, and old dogs can (must!) learn new tricks. I consider this week to be the beginning of my 2012 training.

Hello Skuj, admirable goal for sure. This is a good place to help keep you honest as you try to improve. Several times I have been tempted to start doing doubles, but have kept bumping into scheduling issues.

I also wanted to welcome others who had recently come to or come back to this thread. There has really been some nice discussion with food for thought coming through, and I, for one, appreciate everyones input.

Somehow I missed sending Kudo's to AK for his HM. Well done!

Also, I must say that every time Mopak checks in, it makes me want to move to Australia. Back when I was in HS, my parents went down-under, and my dad admitted to me that if he didn't have reasons for returning, he would have strongly considered moving there.

Fatty R. Belt Buckle good luck on getting to sub-16, that'll put you in rarified air, indeed. There are but a handful of 50+ guys in the country that are running sub-16. You can look at last year's 5k championships to see what a feat that is.

http://www.usatf.org/events/2010/USAMasters5kmChampionships/results/menGroups.asp

Of course, now we have Pete Magill in our age group. But he's a quantum leap ahead of the rest of us sloggers (speaking of myself, of course.)

The Kangaroo story reminds me of a 440 session I did at the University of Colorado's track in 1979 or '80. In those days there was a colony of prarie dogs that lived along the back stretch. It was a pretty good sized one, I'd guess there were maybe thirty of them and they all sat at the top of their burroughs as I ran.

As I'd start down the back stretch all of them had their heads turned to watch me and as I ran all of their heads turned in unison and followed me. They did it on each rep and each time it struck me as funnier than it had the previous time. On the third or fourth rep I started laughing so hard that I couldn't finish the reps. Maybe you had to be there.

Skuj wrote:

Gonna read this thread, but would just like to introduce myself. I'm 50 in April 2012. In about 5:10 Mile shape today. My 2012 goal = sub 5min Mile on an outdoor track.

Hey, me too. Maybe we should race.

Truly awesome . A life spent serving, and a life spent living !

Rest easy Bill Fitz .