Sure, Webb screwed up to some degree. The article is an obvious attempt to shame him over it, or as Tom said, to "help" Webb by shining a light on how he acted after a disappointing race.
Saying "we weren't trying to embarrass Webb" is kind of funny, in that it's precisely the opposite of true.
Just taking the article down, stop being attention whores trying to prove a point!
Oh Billy!!!!!!
As someone who was at the meet and was able to see some of this happening, I have to admit that I lost a lot of respect for Alan Webb. I saw plenty of people watching Webb's pathetic display in dismay. But hey, maybe now it'll be the norm to whine like a baby and throw things after bad races...
What is the Salazar interview you all are talking about? Anyone have a link?
wejo wrote:
That is determined by an algorithm which we haven't changed in months. So this thread despite a lot of posts isn't popular enough. Likely means there is a bunch of super impassioned people posting on it but not enough people overall reading it.
Sure.
Jefe in the CO wrote:
This post is where I am in this debacle.
I want to know what the runners reactions were (good or bad), I want to know about the behind the scenes action, I want to know about their post race workouts/goofing off cool downs. All that is good stuff.
What I don't want to know is whether you were offended by it or worse, try to lecture Alan from the "bully pulpit".
It probably would be a worthwhile investment for you guys to get some counseling on how to get access to/ generate more insider knowledge and get less of the preaching.
That post by Tom Davis was laughable and the article was almost as embarrassing as the Salazar interview.
Am I the only one that thinks it’s time for a front page poll?
This is exactly where I stand. I'm all for reporting what happened if it really happened in normal plain sight. What I don't like is the judgement and labeling and apparent ulterior motive on their part.
Furthermore, wejo and Tom Davis can say "I'm a fan of Alan's, but..." all they want, but to the average reader their article does come across as bashing.
Webb may be immature (I was at the meet and saw at least some of his post race reaction), but not as immature as the brojos, who seem to want to be the "mean girls" of track. I agree with everyone that the article is petty and vicious, and that while Webb could probably stand to change his psychological approach, having an emotional reaction to a bad race is not totally abnormal behavior.
Suggested front page poll: "Is Wejo a mensch?" Predicted outcome: 100% "f*** no."
Tom Davis wrote:
Here is the bottom line: The article is accurate and the article is called for. Why you might ask? because Alan Webb cannot and should not have had such a tantrum in a public sphere.
When did we vote you in as the arbiter of what's acceptable in a public sphere?
What is your priority? Is is to be a reporter, or is it to be the judge of behavior 'in the public sphere'?
What you wrote was not reporting - it was a biased editorial on Webb's post-race antics.
If you can't be held back from injecting your own biases and attitudes into your writing, then be upfront and call it what it is - editorializing. It's not journalism.
If you cannot see the ridiculousness of pretending to write a facts-based story while opining that "Webb cannot and should not have had such a tantrum in a public sphere," you should stop 'reporting' for a while and figure that out.
If my PR was 3:46 and I ran 4:00 while expecting better, I'd be ticked off, too. And to have some judgemental blowhard nitpicking my post-race behavior? Ugh, no thanks.
Leave the holier-than-thou opinions to your blog or twitter feed. If you want to write articles that have any semblance to journalism, leave your opinions at the door. You come across as borderline douchey, while Webb comes across as a fiesty dude who was unhappy at his performance. I'd rather be that, than a douche who thinks himself to be the self-annointed arbiter of public behavior.
These guys have never been real Webb fans. They have only been "fans" of Webb so long as it benefits them. Like I said, major difference of personal philosphies here and that is what is at the core of this, a bunch of ivy league prom queens who finally "caught" Webb in a bad display and couldn't wait to sensationalize it. Look at what wejo says in that emory called him right away and thought immediately that this should be reported on. Then Tom, whatever the hell his last name is, chimes in trying to teach Webb a lesson. Nice!
I mean, what's next outing gay athletes because you see them holding hands or kissing members of the same sex next to the stands after a race because you deem it your responsibility too? How about reporting runners salaries or endorsement contracts because you heard from so and so that they make tens of thousands of dollars? How about following female athletes into the locker rooms and taking nude pictures, because that's "newsworthy?"
Bunch of ivy league pricks who can't stand a middle class Webb who could drop them like the trash that they are.
And I thought Webb had mental/emotional problems.
Wejo, why would you get in other athletes business like that? While I agree that what Webb did is somewhat unacceptable, I can see exactly where he's coming from. Have you ever wanted to win a race or place high in a race so badly only to place in the lower 50% of the race? Webb tried the best he could and simply failed and I can see where Webb is coming from.
That being said, Webb does often act too much like a child. I have always thought in general milers and below are not really the nicest people(Most elite marathoners are upbeat, cheery people) and Webb is one of my least favorite elite racers in that category(and even bad for a miler in that case). But what makes you think you have the right to sneak into someones bussiness? How would YOU like it if you were under all this pressure and wayyy under performed and just lost it and then it's all out over the internet?
Maybe all this attitude Webb has could go into running fast and achieving good times? Unfortunately, it could possibly also be his downfall. I've always thought that athletes always beat themselves up waaay waaay more than the media or anyone can possibly do(due to pressure). While I liked the read and enjoyed being able to find such information, it probably will only put more pressure on Webb and make him more frustarated. Webb's going through a phase right now. I hope he gets better and we'll see how he performs in other races.
I guess the Brojos just prefer Webb to have more interviews like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2u7srOmMJg
That interview was not easy to watch. Nor has any interview since the end of 2007 been easy to watch. In fact they were painful to watch and just made you feel sorry for him. It's obvious he is forcing a positive attitude, it's obvious he's not happy, it's obvious he hasn't been doing what he wants to do.
The interview after New Balance finally made me happy, because those are Webb's real thoughts. He isn't forcing anything to look good for the public, he is giving an honest reaction to the race.
It seems like the Brojos prefer Alan lie and stick to faking emotions instead of giving us an accurate representation of how he feels. I, however, want to know truthful things about the athletes as do most people on this board. We want to know stuff about how training is going and how they feel, and not just generic happy answers.
Undoubtedly Webb has read that article, and because of it is probably going to go back to stupid fake interviews. Thanks a lot.
Or, he could be like Leo Manzano in his interview after the race:
"Yea, I've been training and it's February...how about I just talk about Lukas instead and dodge every question about how I feel about my race?"
Is that the type of interview you'd prefer Webb to have? He was fine.
I have observed Alan since 9th grade (I live 4 miles from South Lakes High School).
I know his former coach pretty well, too.
One of the things I always worried about with Alan's choice to come back home and be coached by Razcko is that it was not an optimum situation for him to mature. Like it or not, Alan is and was an American suburban kid and being away from home, studying and running and socializing on his own (at one of the nation's best schools to boot) would have been an invaluable experience in terms of gathering maturity and independence. It would have been far more than about the running, which in turn would have led to a more balanced life that ironically I think would have worked out well for him. Of course, when the comparison is Nick Willis, it makes these hindsight kind of conclusions easier.
And so there is this latest incident. It scares me a bit - this not keeping things in perspective. I could understand moments of frustration - in fact, if this was a 30 second incident until the adult instincts kicked in, we would simply state we admire his fire and competitiveness and leave at that. But to go on and on like this. Do it in public - particularly when you are the American record holder and the best world class talent since Ryun - it is newsworthy, irrespective of irrelevant dreck such as the Brojo's Ivy League pedigree. (Alan's family frankly doesn't have a middle class background, but more of an upper middle class one, and really now, if Alan wanted to go to Harvard or Princeton, well, he would have been admitted).
I don't wish ill will on Alan. And especially so since he is newly married to a young woman who is a fantastic catch, with a promising future before him. But that is the point, isn't it? A race is just a race, and when things don't go well, well, you move on to the next one. It is what we expect of champions, and Alan certainly qualifies in that category. Being great means putting up with good press and bad. Shooting the messenger here doesn't make sense - and thoughtful fans (including me) don't think any less of Alan - at some level we can identify with the frustration. But perspective and maturity is important, and a wake-up call, even a public one, has its benefits.
Give this a rest.
This is admittedly a tangent, but the "Big Three" are essentially all on a "down cycle" for the first time in ten years, and are approaching thirty years of age. They seem to be beginning to unravel. There may be a brief "bounce back" or two, but the tide seems to have turned.
different perspective wrote:
I have observed Alan since 9th grade (I live 4 miles from South Lakes High School).
I know his former coach pretty well, too.
One of the things I always worried about with Alan's choice to come back home and be coached by Razcko is that it was not an optimum situation for him to mature. Like it or not, Alan is and was an American suburban kid and being away from home, studying and running and socializing on his own (at one of the nation's best schools to boot) would have been an invaluable experience in terms of gathering maturity and independence. It would have been far more than about the running, which in turn would have led to a more balanced life that ironically I think would have worked out well for him. Of course, when the comparison is Nick Willis, it makes these hindsight kind of conclusions easier.
And so there is this latest incident. It scares me a bit - this not keeping things in perspective. I could understand moments of frustration - in fact, if this was a 30 second incident until the adult instincts kicked in, we would simply state we admire his fire and competitiveness and leave at that. But to go on and on like this. Do it in public - particularly when you are the American record holder and the best world class talent since Ryun - it is newsworthy, irrespective of irrelevant dreck such as the Brojo's Ivy League pedigree. (Alan's family frankly doesn't have a middle class background, but more of an upper middle class one, and really now, if Alan wanted to go to Harvard or Princeton, well, he would have been admitted).
I don't wish ill will on Alan. And especially so since he is newly married to a young woman who is a fantastic catch, with a promising future before him. But that is the point, isn't it? A race is just a race, and when things don't go well, well, you move on to the next one. It is what we expect of champions, and Alan certainly qualifies in that category. Being great means putting up with good press and bad. Shooting the messenger here doesn't make sense - and thoughtful fans (including me) don't think any less of Alan - at some level we can identify with the frustration. But perspective and maturity is important, and a wake-up call, even a public one, has its benefits.
Give this a rest.
I'm sure Alan himself would be ecstatic to have people who have 'observed' him since 9th grade deliver grand psychological assessments on his personality based on one post-race tirade. /sarcasm
"Give this a rest" is right - let's start by not becoming armchair psychologists and pretending to know what's going on inside his head. He's what, 28 years old now? If he wants to bitch about a race, then Alan, go ahead and bitch about the race.
Wisco Fan wrote:
Why you might ask? because Alan Webb cannot and should not have had such a tantrum in a public sphere.
I was one of a select few people to witness this entire episode from the time of the race until Reggie was closed.
Mr Davis,
No disrespect, but by your own definition, the tantrum did not occur in the public sphere. It was a private moment witnessed by a few credentialed folks including the media. If you you were to talk to the beat writers in every major sport, they would testify that not everything is worthy of a story. This is also why locker rooms are closed for 5-10 minutes after a game. If you take a deep breath, no one is really objecting to the content of the article. People are upset with the manner Emory conveyed his point. This is why God created editors. I for one am gald Alan got pissed. If you guys can't handle this level of emotion in professional athletics, stay in the stands. Unfettered access comes with resonsibility.
Yeah, I gotta go with this because it keeps on being mentioned. The media area isn't exactly the most public of spheres. How many of the fans could get to the area to watch this outburst? None? Then it's not a public area.
Feel free to email me comments because I can't read everything in this thread.
I just had a discussion on this with my wife. She checks out the site from time to time because of me. Her main issue was with the headline "tantrum" and felt it is sensationalist. She asks what we were trying to accomplish with the headline and feels the term has a lot of hidden meaning. I said we were trying to accurately describe what happened. Emory earlier was using the word "meltdown" and other possibilities were "extremely pissed", etc. We then decided what occurred was a tantrum.
She said even though tantrum may technically mean "a fit of bad temper" for many people when they read the word they're going to already have a lot of value judgments in it. I understand what she is saying.
Having said that however, considering this is the first time in 10 years we've reported anything like this we felt the behavior was so beyond what is expected at a meet even from a disappointed competitor it should be reported. The article with some people didn't make the proper impression.
On a lighter note, I was saying to her, imagine if Michael Phelps at some preseason swimming meet when ballistic afterwards and was throwing stuff around and yelling and going beyond what anyone had seen before. Do you think it would be reported? She laughed and said, "Michael Phelps is a world-wide celebrity. No one has heard of Alan Webb."
I guess only in the hard core running world are Michael Phelps and Alan Webb considered to be equals.
I think the insulting thing about it is that 1) he didn't direct his anger at anyone except himself and 2) the article was written as if Webb's behavior is bizarre and abnormal when it's not. Most of us that have taken their racing seriously have gone for an angry run after a shitty race, cursing ourselves. I remember reading about Ryan Hall doing a barefoot five mile tempo after getting smacked around at HS nationals.
Calling it a tantrum in the title sets a bitchy tone for a non-news, tabloid hit piece. Do you think anyone would give two shits if Tom Brady yelled at himself after his 4 interception game in the playoffs a couple years ago? Would it be better if he was goofing off in the locker room?
rojo- if Tim Montgomery orUsain Bolt or Marion Jones did this, you might casually mention it but you wouldn't sensationalize it.
you know it too.
The emotion of sport brings out the worst of people sometimes. There are helmets thrown in the locker room or on the sideline at almost every NFL game. Helmets fly all the time in a baseball dugout. Tennis rackets are broken all the time and that's a "sophisticated" sport. Tiger Woods throws a few F-bombs on national tv every match. Have you ever watched a hockey game? I think it's great that Webb got emotional. It's much more sickening to see runners happy with losing because they ran a decent time or are training through or whatever. What makes sport great is the emotion of competition. We miss that in running way too often.