Further, as the guy above me said, Wetmore is a public figure and this is a public forum, so the NY Times "actual malice" standard would apply.
Further, as the guy above me said, Wetmore is a public figure and this is a public forum, so the NY Times "actual malice" standard would apply.
Quiller recruited the guys that were featured in Lear's book.I was recruited by CU. I spoke to Jason Drake 95% of the time. Wetmore called me twice for about 30 seconds. Oddly, his mystique was a good recruiting tool.
Fact Checker wrote:
Uhm, Wetmore made the team from nothing, which is how he recruited a premier HS talent like Goucher, which why Lear showed up in Goucher's senior year at CU and the Torres brothers committed to CU before the book came out. So, the dynasty was well established before Lear, even before Jay Johnson, and lets not forget that Jay Johnson owed everything to Wetmore not the reverse.
Your example is so obvious as to who said what that I think you should dig a hole and jump in, quickly I might add. 3rd party rules and what applies can be figured out by any moron, you included. It's called common sense. What a whack job!
Nobody is going to sue over stuff said on an internet message board. Probability of success is low and actually proving economic harm is very difficult. No lawyer is going to take such a case on a contingency basis and only a rich moron would pay by the hour for such a lawsuit.
(Of course you can come up with hypothetical suggestions of where it would make sense but certainly not anything in this thread).
Still wondering - anyone?
bobby e. wrote:
I haven't gotten my copy of RT yet so I haven't seen this letter. Can anybody tell me whether Scott Douglas (or the editors generally) responded?
As has been pointed out, it's not that Wetmore is replying to a direct quote from Johnson - the disputed assertions are made by the author of the piece. It read to me like either (a) Douglas thought the allegations he made "for" Johnson were common knowledge in running circles or (b) they worked out some agreement about Johnson not going entirely "on the record" with those comments, but getting them into the piece anyway.
I would like to hear from the author of the piece.
Are you new here? Guys using big words and trying to impress others is rampant on this site, so get used to it or leave quickly. Ghost of Ashenfelter is a prime example and a real know-it-all wanna be.
THAT WHAT I WAS SAYING BONEHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was explaining 3rd party hearsay. Go back to the basement loser.
I wanna hear from Jay Johnson on this. I guarantee he is reading this. C'mon out Jay!
nothing new pal wrote:
Are you new here? Guys using big words and trying to impress others is rampant on this site, so get used to it or leave quickly. Ghost of Ashenfelter is a prime example and a real know-it-all wanna be.
... although not nearly as rampant as empty logic and name-calling. Actually, I try to use small words so I don't lose people like you. Have a nice day!
Past CU Dude wrote:
That said, CU is still recruiting a lot of talent, they just are panning out. Tebo and Medina were both top-notch talents, and if they were running like one would think Wetmore runners of their caliber would run, CU would be right in the top three or four in the nation like usual. But instead, they aren't, and the B-class runners that Wetmore has made into All-Americans have become the top guys for CU. Wetmore does great things with mediocre talent, but in order to be in the upper echelon, he needs some of his stars to perform, and they simply haven't in the last few years.
First, WOW! Seems like so much fun and really worth it to be a successful D-I coach these days. As an added benefit to the job, you get to be picked apart by all the "man with a plan" coaches out there in armchair coachland. It's not enough that the job is challenging enough with all the messed up talented athletes from messed up families in a messed up time, you get a years worth of criticism before you have had a chance to straighten anyone out & before the school year is even over! BONUS!!! I can tell you this, as someone who did the job for 9 years at all levels, volunteer & full time paid, no thanks to ever returning. I can't believe that my livelyhood actually depended on the actions of 18-23 year olds both on the track and away from it! Anyway, enough on that.
This talent development situation at CU is what I saw at Arkansas toward the end of the McDonnell era. For some reason, his blue-chip Americans weren't producing as well as they had in the past-read that through the 90's. That is not to say that he didn't still have the magic, because some of his blue chipers did get it done, and of course there were always the internationals to cover the slack. In the past, at a school like Arkansas your top talent would carry, and the really cool stories were about the 4:22/9:25 walk-on guys that became All-Americans and squeezed out some team points at nationals. I don't know, maybe it takes a more delicate touch to handle the athletes of today. It seems like no matter the level, high school or pro, if you even look at an athlete sideways these days, you've got an issue. Just my a-hole opinion as a guy who is still a huge fan of the sport, but who was wise enough to get out of the biz.
Reality Smack wrote:
First, WOW! Seems like so much fun and really worth it to be a successful D-I coach these days. As an added benefit to the job, you get to be picked apart by all the "man with a plan" coaches out there in armchair coachland. It's not enough that the job is challenging enough with all the messed up talented athletes from messed up families in a messed up time, you get a years worth of criticism before you have had a chance to straighten anyone out & before the school year is even over! BONUS!!! I can tell you this, as someone who did the job for 9 years at all levels, volunteer & full time paid, no thanks to ever returning. I can't believe that my livelyhood actually depended on the actions of 18-23 year olds both on the track and away from it! Anyway, enough on that.
This talent development situation at CU is what I saw at Arkansas toward the end of the McDonnell era. For some reason, his blue-chip Americans weren't producing as well as they had in the past-read that through the 90's. That is not to say that he didn't still have the magic, because some of his blue chipers did get it done, and of course there were always the internationals to cover the slack. In the past, at a school like Arkansas your top talent would carry, and the really cool stories were about the 4:22/9:25 walk-on guys that became All-Americans and squeezed out some team points at nationals. I don't know, maybe it takes a more delicate touch to handle the athletes of today. It seems like no matter the level, high school or pro, if you even look at an athlete sideways these days, you've got an issue. Just my a-hole opinion as a guy who is still a huge fan of the sport, but who was wise enough to get out of the biz.
Exactly. Wetmore still does awesome things with his runners, (Joe is a great example this year) but his past national championship teams had guys like Joe as the 3-4-5 or 4-5 guys with people like Schoolmeester, Vaughn, the Torres, Ritzenhein, and Goucher up front knocking a hundred points off the team score. You just can't win NCAAs if your first guy is just an All-American. I think Tebo and Medina have the talent to be top ten or twenty, but for whatever reason they haven't developed. In the case of Tebo, I've heard it's more his own attitude than anything else. Medina might have injuries, I'm not sure.
But yeah, sucks that Wetmore is getting a bad rap for the shortcomings of his runners. Especially when he can't really recruit out of state because of the budget issues (I think even Tebo was only on like a 15% scholarship his first year). That said, I think there are some personality issues that have nothing to do with his abilities as a coach that are hurting and will continue to hurt the program, and at this point I wouldn't mind seeing him go or hire someone else to help with his men's recruiting, as brilliant of a coach as he is.
It is always interesting to me how these "disgruntled" or "unhappy" runners always blame Coach Wetmore but never blame themselves. Sometimes these high school studs peaked in high school, plain and simple. Some can't handle the grind that comes with running for CU, and they don't improve too much from high school. Some of these superstars get hurt, much like they do at any other university. Coach Wetmore takes too much criticism for his coaching techniques when the reality is that some of his runners were just pussies.
For those of you who have a problem with Coach Wetmore's relationship with Heather B, here is where you can send your complaint:
- I'm sure he will tell you to mind your own damned business, but its worth a shot.
Bottom line: Wetmore is the head coach of a very successful program and he deserves, by far, the most credit for making it successful. I have coached better 1500, mile, 2 mile, 3k, and 5k runners than both of them; does that make me a better coach? No. Johnson needs to shut the hell up and go on with his life and be more appreciative of the opportunity and realize that he screwed up!!!
Like the AD is gonna care. He's up to his ass in football drama, and when that isn't rich enough, might have a couple minutes to worry about boosters, basketball, or what conference CU is gonna be in. Cross country? Are you kidding me?
As a Buff alum and interested runner (never on the XC/track team though), I could only dream of the day where the CU AD, or the rest of the school, actually gave 2 Hershey squirts about XC or track.
The Boulder mystique is real, and maybe a good coach/recruiter will always attract some additional good runners, but I'm afraid the athletic dept is a lost cause when it comes to any sport other than the revenue generators.
Runners who love running for running's sake will always consider Boulder, as long as they don't have a complete toolbag for coach. This will be true in 5, 10, 20, and 50 years, well past when most of us have run our last step. I wouldn't worry too much about the current coaching drama at CU.
1. Wetmore deserves a ton of credit, yes! He's an awesome coach. 2. Johnson doesn't need to "shut the hell up." Who said Johnson wasn't appreciative? He is appreciative of the opportunity and never said that he wasn't. He is the first to give credit to Wetmore. Jay is in a position to comment on Wetmore's style having run and coached under him. Jay is well educated, experienced and knows running. He made two comments in the article; one was that, essentially, Wetmore needs a deep team of talent in order have success at nationals since people tend to get hurt with the intense training. That is true. I know, I ran for the team. Second comment was that he left because the job description was changing out of control and it was time to leave. That is all he said! Read the article before talking trash!
jama wrote:
Bottom line: Wetmore is the head coach of a very successful program and he deserves, by far, the most credit for making it successful. I have coached better 1500, mile, 2 mile, 3k, and 5k runners than both of them; does that make me a better coach? No. Johnson needs to shut the hell up and go on with his life and be more appreciative of the opportunity and realize that he screwed up!!!
I will admit i don't know a whole lot about Johnson's recruiting...but i will say this.
How hard was his job? I mean really? Can you judge his recruiting by the recruits he got considering the tools he had?
1) Running with the buffaloes
2) Goucher and Ritz went there who were gods to most distance runners.
3) For some of the time Zeigle twins went there (had to throw that in)
4) At a powerhouse school at altitude. (not a lot of powerhouse schools offer that).
Just saying he basically had ridiculously powerful recruiting tools handed to him. Tom Brady could have recruited most of those guys to CU that Johnson got to go there.
some of you sorry asses pussies need to a apologize to Art.....and to wetmore!....screw JJ...he f.ed up!
this whole thread is a discraise to running!
most of you bitches are nothing more then mommies little choo choos sorry ass bitches punks
LooneyBin wrote:
some of you sorry asses pussies need to a apologize to Art.....and to wetmore!....screw JJ...he f.ed up!
this whole thread is a discraise to running!
most of you bitches are nothing more then mommies little choo choos sorry ass bitches punks
Are you bozos still yapping on about this? Sheesh.
That's it? We done here?
fact checker 2 wrote:
Quiller recruited the guys that were featured in Lear's book.
I was recruited by CU. I spoke to Jason Drake 95% of the time. Wetmore called me twice for about 30 seconds. Oddly, his mystique was a good recruiting tool.
Fact Checker wrote:Uhm, Wetmore made the team from nothing, which is how he recruited a premier HS talent like Goucher, which why Lear showed up in Goucher's senior year at CU and the Torres brothers committed to CU before the book came out. So, the dynasty was well established before Lear, even before Jay Johnson, and lets not forget that Jay Johnson owed everything to Wetmore not the reverse.
Then why in RWTB does 5th year senior Goucher talk about choosing CU because of Wetmore, this is covered in detail. Obviously, you're wrong, Quiller's guys would be gone by RTWB, and it was Wetmore that made those guys good, Alan Culpepper in particular.