This is not a good result. However, we might need to give the guy another chance. It sounds like he has done workouts that indicate better performances. Perhaps he needed a rust buster. I hope he returns to previous levels of greatness. However, it is also possible that the US mid/distance running world is simply deeper and more competitive.
Perspectivation wrote:
Cool, wet track, looked like even splits, didn't rig up on the homestretch. Good start.
Agreed. 56-56, smooth, no laboring. That may be exactly what they were going for.
I would like to see him run like this again.
*stipe wrote:
Perhaps he needed a rust buster.
I agree-- but the problem is, I think, that for those of us who really follow running and runners, it's just confusing and troubling to end up with another result that, truthfully, just had me asking, "What the hell?" I mean, I understand what everyone's saying, but why race it if the goal is a well controlled 1:52? He's run that in ladder workouts, so why travel to the UK to do it? And a 1:49 would be easier to understand: a little controlled speed and so on. But running 1:52 sometimes doesn't qualify for D3 nationals... so it's just really tough to see the point of racing it I guess.
*stipe wrote:
Perhaps he needed a rust buster.
what the hell would you call this meet? it looked like the only people there were the athletes and 3 or 4 of their girlfriends. i was shocked he even bothered to toe the line for an event like this.
jag wrote:
*stipe wrote:Perhaps he needed a rust buster.
I agree-- but the problem is, I think, that for those of us who really follow running and runners, it's just confusing and troubling to end up with another result that, truthfully, just had me asking, "What the hell?" I mean, I understand what everyone's saying, but why race it if the goal is a well controlled 1:52? He's run that in ladder workouts, so why travel to the UK to do it? And a 1:49 would be easier to understand: a little controlled speed and so on. But running 1:52 sometimes doesn't qualify for D3 nationals... so it's just really tough to see the point of racing it I guess.
Maybe he wasn't racing. It sure didn't look like he was racing. He was in a "race" but he didn't appear to be racing at all. They couldn't have picked a more low key "race" to knock some rust off and to try and stay under the radar at the same time.
I'd stay tuned. We may see something a bit faster before he heads home.
Has it occured to any of us that Alan Webb and AlSal don't have to give a shit what we think? Everyone asks what the point of going to Europe to run a mediocre D3 college time is...well has anyone given any thought to what it means to come back from a year's layoff racing with a F*CKING 800! Can you imagine a worse distance to run in Webb's situation? Read the article from a few weeks back, he is nowhere near top form. If I was mentally washed up, switched coaches only to get injured and then have surgery, then come back for 6-8 months and have my coach say, "You should run an 800 as a rust buster," I'd say, "F*ck you, Coach, YOU should run an 800 as a rust buster." Yea, I'm not very clever.
Point being, stop whining about him being washed up because his first race back in what seems like forever was not what you wanted. None of us even know what kind of training while he was racing like garbage in the early stages of 2009, which could be another huge factor on how long it takes him to regain his previous form.
STFU. And I don't even like Webb that much.
Not sure why according to some posters here -- who most surely had their ups and downs as runners, that is if they have even run competitively -- think a runner has to be on his game all the time. The dude has some setbacks and injuries, but still, the harsh Lets Run crowd demands only personal bests and American Records all the freaking time.
I'm glad Webb competed, it's good to have him back on the scene.
Everyone keeps wondering why bother to fly all the way over to Europe when he could do this workout with Rupp in Oregon. Have people forgotten that Rupp and Salazar are already in Europe? It doesn't seem that outrageous that Webb is going around with those guys and training while Rupp is racing.
As far as why do this instead of just a time trial workout with Rupp or some other guys (what other guys are people talking about, btw? It's cheaper to enter a race with a dozen 1:51ish guys than to hire a couple of them to pace your time trial), have people forgotten what one of the main criticisms of Webb's has been? He knows what it's like to run time trials, he needs to remember what it's like to run in a pack of guys that are racing...it can't hurt to get used to it, even if he's just practicing.
So if I'm Salazar, I'm traveling around Europe with Rupp, I want Webb to run a workout that includes a hard 800 time trial type effort, and I think it can't hurt to get him used to running in a pack again, bust a little rust, and mentally get that whole "I haven't raced in 18 months" thing out of his head, this race seems likes the perfect idea. And Webb does well when he has confidence. He gets confidence when he wins, or maybe when he gets 7th and has Salazar whispering in his ear and reminding him that he was taking it easy, practicing, and that soon he'll be winning races those guys couldn't even get in. I've paced people in races before, way below my ability, and as stupid as it may sound, it does feel good to run with all these people and know that when you're at your best, you can whip them. As long as he remembers that, it's a good feeling.
As far as what this result means for Webb...I don't know. He certainly looked fresh at the end, like he wasn't going all out. That could be because he was taking it easy as part of a workout, or because his strength is way better than his speed at this point. I think it's safe to say that he might have been able to go a bit faster, but he certainly wasn't in 1:43 or even 1:45 shape. If he races a few more times, it wouldn't be surprising to see him get down to 1:47-1:49, 3:37-3:40, 13:30-13:45 this year.
In short, we can't really evaluate this since we don't have enough information about what they planned on and intended this for. But, seeing as how it's pretty obvious that they didn't intend this as a 'big comeback' with a world leading time, I don't think we can view this as a disappointment, but rather we should just be patient and see what happens.
Is this so much different than Craig Mottram starting off the season with 13:36? Kind of off for a 12:55 guy, but so is 1:52 for a 1:43 guy. Mottram did just run 7:45 so with any luck Webb will see some sort of similar improvement after not racing in over a year.
13:36 is far superior to a 1:52, are you trolling?
I understand all of these comments-- I just think it's tough to understand the time and setting. Especially for Webb, who's such a headcase anyway, if it's ego or whatever, what could the idea have been behind a 1:52 race? Comparably, if he raced a mile in 4:16 or something, I'd be pretty confused, and I think justifiably so. I mean, Webb doesn't owe me/us an explanation, I know, it's just sincerely confusing trying to figure out what the guy's up to, here. At my most cynical, I'll say that the 1:52 is just preposterously slow for him (yes, yes, way faster than me, etc., but I'm not Alan Webb). So, as a big fan of his, it's just vexing to try to make something out of this fairly bizarre result, considering he routinely doubled around 1:49 and 4:05 at high school meets.
Has it occurred to you guys that Webb is probably going to race some more in Europe this season? He was coming over anyway and he and AlSal obviously decided to open his season in a low key race.
Watch the race video, it's clear that Webb isn't all out. I bet Salazar told him to take it easy and NOT kick it in, especially with it being rainy and all.
Wow I can't believe some of you.
Am I the only one that us excited that he is racing HEALTHY again? The guy looked smoother than he has in 5 years.
Also he is probably staying in Europe to get in a few more races this year. I bet he didn't travel all the way to Europe for just this race. He's not even close to done yet.
Webber Grill wrote:
Am I the only one that us excited that he is racing HEALTHY again?
Ok, I mean, I understand that. But was that like the only open track in Europe? Don't get me wrong: I'm a big fan of Webb. But what's the upside to this race? The time, for him, is just really, truly slow, considering we're looking for the guy to potentially drop ten seconds before the new year...
Nick Willis ran a 1:50 800m time trial just before the 07 world championships (or 09 can't remember) with even splits, not an all out effort at all, there was no way Alan was going full out.
I was at the meet, and was fortunate to talk to Alan - he's such a nice guy, some of the haters here are the ones who need to retire (from this board).... anyway.
He said beforehand he didn't expect to run super fast after the surgery and rehab - also didn't look too impressed with the torrential showers just 10 minutes before his heat was off.
What the video will tell you is he looked smooth and controlled but lacked the fire and power to run super fast - that will come back, I have no doubts.
What the video won't tell you is that he's no quitter, he did a super long warm-down (~60 mins) incl some hill/off-road efforts and then some pretty fast relaxed laps of the track before the 3000SC barriers were going up. This showed he's got the desire to be the best again, a 2012 medal maybe, a 2012 gold is probably too early to say and imminent retirement, I don't this so.
Mark
thenegotiator wrote:
13:36 is far superior to a 1:52, are you trolling?
Perhaps, but Mottram is a 5000 man, Webb is not an 800 man. He has a great 800 pr from the past, but he'll never be an 800 man, and he's certainly not doing 800 workouts. The guy has been working out with Rupp, and not even able to hold pace or do full distance.
I have no idea why people are reading so much into this. Webb is on the Salazar plan, and he don't rush things.
You all need to listen to Salazars interview on Flotrack regarding Rupp and how they approach training. It's just an unwavering long term professional approach with emotion eliminated from the game. It's actually very enlightening, and certainly explains Rupps consistency of progression.
Most coaches see talent and they themselves let emotion and they wring the wet rag with all their might, and you know what, it ends up dry. Salazar applies a little bit more pressure over a long time, and doesn't let anything cause him to squeeze harder. That kind of foresight and discipline deserves enormous respect.
Webb fans have no reason to worry for two reasons:
Alan Webbs talent
Alberto Salazars guidance
Just be a little patient. The process has already started. Get him healthy, get him running, give him some moderate workouts, blow some rust out and a taste of competition. They are not going to shoot for more than that this summer.
the first two guys home in the race in 1.49.xx have both run low 1.47 this year
Ha Ha Webb you bald bastard
possibly sets up duel with the chick with the dick