Has Nike's NXN ruined Footlocker National?

There are no standards. Just enjoy. We all did when we ran it.

[bNXN at-large berth: CORONA DEL MAR VS TORREY PINES

Torrey Pines:

-Stanford Invitational Team Champion

-Mt Carmel Invitational Team Champions

-CIF Division I Champions #8 all-time total team time

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STANFORD INV. GIRL'S DIVSION 1 THRU 5 COMBINED TEAM SCORES 5K

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1. 179 TORREY PINES (18:44.0 93:39.8)

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1 2 2241 Megan Morgan SR SDS 17:38.71

2 4 2237 Alli Billmeyer JR SDS 18:09.81

3 7 2239 Ashlyn Dadkhah SO SDS 18:16.01

4 67 2243 Soffe Watsun SO SDS 19:40.91

5 99 2240 Rachel Hiraoka SO SDS 19:54.41

6 (204) 2238 Tori Casella FR SDS 20:41.51

7 (258) 2242 Kelsey O'Connell FR SDS 20:56.91

8. 528 CORONA DEL MAR (19:43.9 98:39.1)

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1 5 588 Melanie Powers SR SS 18:11.73

2 73 586 Allie Hummelberg SR SS 19:43.03

3 88 584 Kristina Funahashi SR SS 19:49.93

4 120 589 Kristin Rivera SO SS 20:03.63

5 242 587 Shelby Perez FR SS 20:50.93

6 (330) 590 Megan Zwerling SO SS 21:21.13

At the MT SAC Invitational Corona Del Mar won the DIV 3,4,5 Team Sweepstakes with a 19:18 average. Torrey Pines placed 4th in the Team Sweepstakes. Great Oak was within single digit points of defeating Mira Costa. Corona Del Mar would not have placed in the top 10 in the Team Sweepstakes.

At the CIF State Championships ESPN Rise Fab-50 US#12 Torrey Pines raced against ESPN Rise Fab-50 US#11 Great Oak. The same Great Oak whom almost defeated ESPN Rise Fab-50 US#7 Mira Costa on two occasions. Torrey Pines rose to the occasion producing the #8 all-time total team time to claim the Div State Championship over Great Oak. A huge accomplishment for a team whom finished 2nd in 2008 to Dana Hills and watched as their NXN berth vanished. Now, with a win, and the 2nd fastest team time of the day it was thought an NXN berth was a lock. A three point victory between the #11 and #12 ranked national programs seemed reasonable.

Meanwhile, ESPN RISE Fab-50 #19 Corona Del Mar traveled to compete in the Division 3 championship against ESPN RISE #15 Orange Lutheran. Corona Del Mar had lost to Lutheran at the Stanford Invitational 52-100. At the CIF Southern Section Championships Lutheran again defeated Corona Del Mar 49-52. At the state final Corona Del Mar defeated Lutheran narrowly 76-81.

The question then comes when results are merged, is it possible that a team whom has never defeated defeated Torrey Pines in 2009 head-to-head match-ups would claim a berth over the Division I champions. Is it possible that the #12 ranked team in the nation according to the ESPN RISE National Rankings defeats the #11 ranked team in the nation Great Oak; the only team outside Saugus whom has competed evenly with Mira Costa and yet still gets snubbed?

It would seem this would be the case as Division III champion Corona Del Mar earns the final NXN Berth, stealing the show from a team whom has handily defeated them all season long. The same Corona Del Mar team who barely defeated a team whom had beat them every meet of the season in Lutheran. While Corona Del Mar could not manage to compete at Stanford, Torrey Pines won the meet. While Corona Del Mar would compete in the Div 3,4,5 Team Sweepstakes at Mt. Sac; Torrey Pines was racing in the largest race against US#2 Saugus, US#7 Mira Costa, and US#11 Great Oak and finished 4th.

At first I thought the NXN process was legit and based upon awarding a true national champion for high school cross country. Now I see the politics of it all, amazing enough that within hours of the meet being completed Dyestatcal Editor Rich Gonzales, an NXN At-Large Berth Committee member, had already posted the Cali at-large berths on Dyestatcal before they were even officially released nationally. Clearly Torrey Pines body of work is vastly superior to Corona Del Mar. One does not need to gripe and complain about legal competitors and state association rules to see the body of work for Torrey Pines and what that team did to claim the D-I title was NXN worthy.

However, as usual a team whom was 8th at Stanford; would not have placed top 10 at Mt. SAC; and whom lost to a team all-season that Torrey Pines had NEVER lost too gets the berth.

Way to go NXN! Here's to Torrey Pines getting screwed for a second year in a row. So you see, NXN is not based upon winning a state title or even beating a nationally superior ranked team to claim that title. NXN is based upon hypothetical race merging. It would seem more and more the season, and the state championships are meaningless. Torrey Pines got screwed.

Agreeable wrote:

[bNXN at-large berth: CORONA DEL MAR VS TORREY PINES

Torrey Pines got screwed.

This post was a rambling mess. I don't think you understand the qualifications for at-large berths to NXN. The power merge matters because that's representative of a team's strength at a national type meet. CdM dealt with health issues all season (thus the weaker performances mid-season) and then came on perfectly at state.

It's obviously not a perfect system but I believe it has operated under one principle the entire time so it's something you have to deal with. If you don't like it maybe you should become a member of the selection committee.

Nike is a marketing company. This is a marketing tool to reach out to thousands and thousands of potential future and current consumers. Nike's intention is to grow at all costs necessary.It is my understanding from talks with several Nike NTN founders that they sincerely believed that Foot Locker was losing the important team aspect of the sport. I believe they initially wanted to bring teams to Foot Locker, of course Foot Locker nixed this stating, "how many people run on a team."The Nike format is perfect as long as they honor the spirit of the event. Either crown a legit national championship team or do not. Do not make a mockery of the decades of Harrier Rankings and dreams of guys like AJ Holzerr, Josh Rowe, and John Truax. This deal was meant to do away with the end of season paper polls. To bring teams from the state title to the national finals. In two weeks what have we seen? A team in Midwest awarded a berth to NXN (Lee's Summit) only to have it taken away. For a team in the Northwest to finish 3rd in a time that would have qualified in any other year to a team with competitors whom are not eligible by the state association and soccer players whom never ran cross. Topping it off with a team in California winning the Division I Championship in the #8 all-time total team time over US#11 Great Oak, only to be denied a berth because a team whom has lost to them the entire season ran a better merged 1-5 spread. So, reading between the lines, state championships do not matter. The season does not matter. Winning Stanford, and other in-season super meets does not matter, because NXN will find hypothetical scenarios to determine whether you do or do not deserve to be at Nationals. Probably the most atrocious act is awarding two states over half the national berths. California and New York, it is all about marketing and it is NOT about being fair or doing the right thing.I am shocked Bloom, Truax, and Rowe are not rolling in their graves as we speak.

That wonderful. People need to appreciate what Nike and Footlocker have done for our kids and enjoy and not get so hung up on it. SO what if there's no real champion. There's no real champion on the Turkey Trot day either but people have fun and charities make money for good causes.

I think NXN has ruined Footlocker in a way. I much prefer Footlocker.

It's the ONE meet where the individual is emphasised over the team concept.

Footlocker is unique in that way...

Puts the spotlight on the individual...

NXN is just another of a LONG line of team events where the 5th man of some team whose name is spelled backward just sort of hides in the shadows..

FL is stronger than ever according to independent reports of web traffic statistics. NX is helping the sport. I think we should appreciate the fine people at Footlocker & Nike.

Sorry Mr. agreeable or are you just Aron taylor under a new screen name, still crying about your overrated Shadle Park team not making it.

It's too bad Torrey Pines didn't make it, maybe next year they shouldn't peak in October.

If you look at the recent NXN results, NY deserves to have 4 teams in the meet.

The Lee's Summit team had a chip mixup that the coaches of THAT team reported. When the error was corrected, the results had to be changed. That's not "taking away" a nationals bid as you claimed but awarding it to the correct team.Would you like to make up more lies?

Also, those guys aren't dead yet, so they can't be rolling in their graves.

So to summarize....

JO, FL, Nike = more opportunities for kids

but the system is a mess. Getting the three to sit down and agree on a sound idea was never a possibility.

FLN has such a huge lead with the kids they don't need to talk to anyone.

The BCS Forever wrote:

Just let the kids have fun at the FLN champs and vacation in gorgeous San Diego, and NXN trade fair at the Nike campus in Beaverton. Those are all wonderful perks for any high school kid. We all know it's not for real. There's no real national champs in HS XC nor in NCAA DI-A football.

The Footlocker champion is the national champion, period. I've never even heard of the "Rosa twins" outside of this thread, or any of the others who are supposedly are signs of NXN overtaking Footlocker.

Lukas V. however, that name I know (even if I can't spell it) and have been watching for some time. Where is he going: Footloocker.

Lukas V. however, that name I know (even if I can't spell it) and have been watching for some time. Where is he going: Footloocker.[/quote]

Sorry bro, but the Rosa's are two of the best, add Zach Willis and Elias Geydon to the the list going to NXN as individuals along with top runners on top teams and winning Footlocker is losing it's luster. Doesn't matter on the girls side so much, no girls Footlocker Champion has ever won an NCAA xc title to date. But the girls race is just as strong.

I wrote this last year on this thread; here goes again...

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The one thing Nike has done positively is exploit the fact FL/Kinney never had a team competition (except for the regional combined scores).

I also understand Nike approached Footlocker to combine their events, FL declined the offer.

If FL/Kinney had thought ahead years ago & had provided the complete package (Individual plus Team competition), thus closing the door of any questioning of the concept/packaging, Nike at that point would then be redundant/unnecessary.

Now that the door has been left ajar by FL, I believe that NXN will take over, FL will go the way of the Dinosaurs

All I can say is that NXN-SW was a disaster this year!!!! The course was probably the worst excuse for a xc course ever...dusty, dead grass, construction everywhere, absolutely horrible!!! I know for a fact that turned off a lot of athletes/coaches from returning to Tempe next year.

the truth.... wrote:

Lukas V. however, that name I know (even if I can't spell it) and have been watching for some time. Where is he going: Footloocker.

Sorry bro, but the Rosa's are two of the best, add Zach Willis and Elias Geydon to the the list going to NXN as individuals along with top runners on top teams and winning Footlocker is losing it's luster. Doesn't matter on the girls side so much, no girls Footlocker Champion has ever won an NCAA xc title to date. But the girls race is just as strong.[/quote]

Also I think the main reason Lukas V. didn't run NXN is that he was having some Achilles problems after the Ill. state meet and needed to rest it. His original plan was to try and run both NXN and FL. That's what was reported on dyestat, anyway.... The FL qualifier came later, so he ran that one. I'm betting he wishes now that he had the chance to go up against some of the guys who will be in Portland.

FL is a retailer which sells multiple brands, Nike is a manufacturer with some retail stores. Merging the FLN and NXN marketing shows for those two are NOT possible at all. It's as dumb as Walmart and Tyson having the same trade show or marketing campaign. It just isn't done that way in corprate America.

I certainly agree that there was no team championship beyond the State level before NXN. However, there was an individual one. Now with both, there is really neither.

The problem is that there is no national coordination of HS athletics. There is no sport with a true HS National Championship. FL was the closest thing.

NXN is not a true team championship. It is a "club" championship. I assume this is done to skirt issues with HS governing bodies. What that does, however, is open the door to "All Star" teams. "Teams" are really a group of the best runners from a region from different HS and coaches. Therefore the team score is virtually meaningless. So ultimately, the value becomes the individual race.

But wait, FL still has the individual race, but some of the best individuals are going to NXN. FL also does a "team" score of the regions which has about as much value as the NXN team score.

In other words, neither race has any real "National Champion" value currently. Although both allow college coaches to see how kids stack up on a national level in a similar way to the Golden West meet.

xc cynic wrote:

NXN is not a true team championship. It is a "club" championship. I assume this is done to skirt issues with HS governing bodies. What that does, however, is open the door to "All Star" teams. "Teams" are really a group of the best runners from a region from different HS and coaches. Therefore the team score is virtually meaningless. So ultimately, the value becomes the individual race.

But wait, FL still has the individual race, but some of the best individuals are going to NXN. FL also does a "team" score of the regions which has about as much value as the NXN team score.

In other words, neither race has any real "National Champion" value currently. Although both allow college coaches to see how kids stack up on a national level in a similar way to the Golden West meet.

Part of the requirement to be on a team at NXN is that all 7 members attend the same school and be eligible to compete for that school. Thus, All-Star teams can not be formed.

Got something else to comment on?