You mean like Nick Symmonds, who ran sub-1:43 in London 2012, and has a 47x pr over the 400?
How old was Nick when he ran 1:42? And what year did Nick run his 400 “PR”? Comparing Cooper’s sprint times at 15 (200) and 16 (400) to adults at their known peak is amusing. And is proves you are merely trolling to irritate. All of it based in your jealousy of course.
Go back to your potato pancakes and grind your teeth further as you cry over a 17 year old American winning the World Indoor. What a miserable kvetch.
The example of Nick Symmonds running sub-1:43 simply shows it is possible to make a huge jump in an 800 pr without being faster over the 400. The same can apply to another 800 specialist like Lutkenhaus. His 800 time doesn't show he is faster over the 400. That is only speculation. Nor does his age, as Quincy Wilson has only gained a tenth of a second in his 400 pr since he was 16.
So you're twisting your argument into saying that rather than him not getting faster physically, he hasn't improved his sprint times, which is technically true, but also doesn't mean anything because he hasn't ran any sprint races since last year.
Without faster sprint times there is nothing to go on that suggests he is faster. He may be but we are yet to see it. What I think is unlikely is that he will make a quantum leap to being a 44x runner. He would need to be at least a second faster than his 200 pr.
I’m glad we came to a sort of agreement. You believe it’s unlikely, meaning you admit there’s a possibility that he’ll make the jump to 44x (though unlikely in your opinion).
How old was Nick when he ran 1:42? And what year did Nick run his 400 “PR”? Comparing Cooper’s sprint times at 15 (200) and 16 (400) to adults at their known peak is amusing. And is proves you are merely trolling to irritate. All of it based in your jealousy of course.
Go back to your potato pancakes and grind your teeth further as you cry over a 17 year old American winning the World Indoor. What a miserable kvetch.
The example of Nick Symmonds running sub-1:43 simply shows it is possible to make a huge jump in an 800 pr without being faster over the 400. The same can apply to another 800 specialist like Lutkenhaus. His 800 time doesn't show he is faster over the 400. That is only speculation. Nor does his age, as Quincy Wilson has only gained a tenth of a second in his 400 pr since he was 16.
All you do is hang on to Wilson. At the moment. What if Wilson finally receives better coaching and jumps into the 43s - which he may do anyway? What if Cooper decides he wants to actually pursue a sub 45 and does so? Improvement for most is not linear. If Cooper runs sub 45 or sub 1:41.5 what excuses and rationalizations will you provide in order to state that Snell and Coe were actually faster? Cooper and Wilson are both very young and have a ways to go. You are actually frightened that Cooper has a chance at running 1:41 or even faster.
The example of Nick Symmonds running sub-1:43 simply shows it is possible to make a huge jump in an 800 pr without being faster over the 400. The same can apply to another 800 specialist like Lutkenhaus. His 800 time doesn't show he is faster over the 400. That is only speculation. Nor does his age, as Quincy Wilson has only gained a tenth of a second in his 400 pr since he was 16.
All you do is hang on to Wilson. At the moment. What if Wilson finally receives better coaching and jumps into the 43s - which he may do anyway? What if Cooper decides he wants to actually pursue a sub 45 and does so? Improvement for most is not linear. If Cooper runs sub 45 or sub 1:41.5 what excuses and rationalizations will you provide in order to state that Snell and Coe were actually faster? Cooper and Wilson are both very young and have a ways to go. You are actually frightened that Cooper has a chance at running 1:41 or even faster.
Wilson only has to drop just over a tenth of a second to go sub-44. He may not go any faster. By the same margin that would mean Lutkenhaus would be just sub-46. That is possible.
You don't know what sub-45 means. The equivalent for Wilson would make him the first in history to be sub-43. That is a huge improvement and no one is betting on it. For Lutkenhaus to go sub-45 he has to have speed he hasn't demonstrated, as in sub-21 speed over the 200.
I haven't argued Snell and Coe must be faster than Lutkenhaus. They are another generation of athlete. Lutkenhaus is likely to improve his 800 time and go sub-1:42. Faster than that can't be predicted.
But the subject of the thread is what might he do over the 400 (or 1500). I think most of you are wide of the mark. Like most top 800 runners he appears to be a specialist.
Without faster sprint times there is nothing to go on that suggests he is faster. He may be but we are yet to see it. What I think is unlikely is that he will make a quantum leap to being a 44x runner. He would need to be at least a second faster than his 200 pr.
I’m glad we came to a sort of agreement. You believe it’s unlikely, meaning you admit there’s a possibility that he’ll make the jump to 44x (though unlikely in your opinion).
All you do is hang on to Wilson. At the moment. What if Wilson finally receives better coaching and jumps into the 43s - which he may do anyway? What if Cooper decides he wants to actually pursue a sub 45 and does so? Improvement for most is not linear. If Cooper runs sub 45 or sub 1:41.5 what excuses and rationalizations will you provide in order to state that Snell and Coe were actually faster? Cooper and Wilson are both very young and have a ways to go. You are actually frightened that Cooper has a chance at running 1:41 or even faster.
Wilson only has to drop just over a tenth of a second to go sub-44. He may not go any faster. By the same margin that would mean Lutkenhaus would be just sub-46. That is possible.
You don't know what sub-45 means. The equivalent for Wilson would make him the first in history to be sub-43. That is a huge improvement and no one is betting on it. For Lutkenhaus to go sub-45 he has to have speed he hasn't demonstrated, as in sub-21 speed over the 200.
I haven't argued Snell and Coe must be faster than Lutkenhaus. They are another generation of athlete. Lutkenhaus is likely to improve his 800 time and go sub-1:42. Faster than that can't be predicted.
But the subject of the thread is what might he do over the 400 (or 1500). I think most of you are wide of the mark. Like most top 800 runners he appears to be a specialist.
The nonsense is you comparing Cooper and Wilson. Two very different athletes and very different situations. Cooper’a potential at 400m is hard to determine. You have NOT ONCE acknowledged that Cooper’s only 200m race was over two years ago. He hasn’t raced it since. And he is obviously bigger and stronger and faster than he was over two years ago. Go watch the race on his YT channel.
Cooper’s coach feels he’s capable of sub 45 at some point. Since Capeau has always been a bit conservative with any predictions, his take is likely more realistic than that of an angry old man who seeks to belittle Cooper and others at every turn, who says Cooper hasn’t improved at 400 when in fact he hasn’t run a 400m race since 5/3/25, almost a year ago - as his second race of the afternoon after a 1:47.04. But that doesn’t mean anything, right? He simply hasn’t improved! You can’t say that. We don’t know that. But we suspect he has. So do you. That’s why you’re so bothered.
When you are proven wrong, as you usually are on this board, how many hundreds of posts will you provide to show that Cooper is actually getting slower month by month?
Wilson only has to drop just over a tenth of a second to go sub-44. He may not go any faster. By the same margin that would mean Lutkenhaus would be just sub-46. That is possible.
You don't know what sub-45 means. The equivalent for Wilson would make him the first in history to be sub-43. That is a huge improvement and no one is betting on it. For Lutkenhaus to go sub-45 he has to have speed he hasn't demonstrated, as in sub-21 speed over the 200.
I haven't argued Snell and Coe must be faster than Lutkenhaus. They are another generation of athlete. Lutkenhaus is likely to improve his 800 time and go sub-1:42. Faster than that can't be predicted.
But the subject of the thread is what might he do over the 400 (or 1500). I think most of you are wide of the mark. Like most top 800 runners he appears to be a specialist.
The nonsense is you comparing Cooper and Wilson. Two very different athletes and very different situations. Cooper’a potential at 400m is hard to determine. You have NOT ONCE acknowledged that Cooper’s only 200m race was over two years ago. He hasn’t raced it since. And he is obviously bigger and stronger and faster than he was over two years ago. Go watch the race on his YT channel.
Cooper’s coach feels he’s capable of sub 45 at some point. Since Capeau has always been a bit conservative with any predictions, his take is likely more realistic than that of an angry old man who seeks to belittle Cooper and others at every turn, who says Cooper hasn’t improved at 400 when in fact he hasn’t run a 400m race since 5/3/25, almost a year ago - as his second race of the afternoon after a 1:47.04. But that doesn’t mean anything, right? He simply hasn’t improved! You can’t say that. We don’t know that. But we suspect he has. So do you. That’s why you’re so bothered.
When you are proven wrong, as you usually are on this board, how many hundreds of posts will you provide to show that Cooper is actually getting slower month by month?
Firstly, I am not proven wrong by anything anyone has claimed here that Lutkenhaus will do because HE HASN'T DONE IT. His prs remain what they are. He may improve on them - I haven't disputed that - but there is NOTHING that shows he will improve on them to the extent being argued here or required to run 44 for the 400.
His coach's claims also remain speculation - however well informed - for the same reason. LUTKENHAUS HASNT RUN 44. His coach offers no times that show Lutkenhaus has greatly improved his speed. Posters here also show no grasp of how much faster he has to get to achieve the kind of 400 times being predicted of 44x. He has to reduce his 200 pr of 22.1 by over a second - to sub-21. That would effectively be the same for a top woman sprinter dropping her time from 22 to sub-21. It's another universe of speed and about as likely.
It is quite apparent that most commenters here are simply unaware that the 400 and the 800 are very different events that require specialists with very different qualities. Very very few have excelled at a world class level at both. If Lutkenhaus doesn't become world class over the 400 it is for the reasons I have argued.
This post was edited 38 seconds after it was posted.
No one here has run 44 for the 400. So that puts you all in the same position as I am. It is also irrelevant in this discussion.
OCD to the max. Unreal. Cooper really has you squirming.
How is debating what Lutkenhaus may be capable of over the 400 "squirming"? Since he hasn't run any faster yet than his current prs I feel quite comfortable with what I have said.
So many posts removed. You must soend hours complaining to the mods.
Cooper is easily faster than he was two years ago. Give it rest you old jealus schmuck. His win at indoor WCs sent you completely over the edge.
You confuse scepticism with jealousy. If he is "easily faster" you could point to a time that he has run that shows it. But you can't. So you only think he is faster. He might be. But it is unlikely to be anything like some have suggested, such as a 44x 400. That would require a quantum leap in his best 200 time.
The phrase you are looking for is “improve his 200m” time, not “quantum leap in his best 200m time.”
Most people improve their 9th grade 200m substantially. I’m sure you know this. In fact, I would bet Cooper’s 47.2 open is faster than 90% of every person earth who has run sub 45.
So they all made quantum leaps according to you.
A relevant comp is Will Sumner. Cooper has a faster 200m & 400m time than Sumner did as a sophomore. Showed significantly faster sprinting ability, both 400m/800m focused.
Will ran 45.06 last season coming off of injury at 21.
You confuse scepticism with jealousy. If he is "easily faster" you could point to a time that he has run that shows it. But you can't. So you only think he is faster. He might be. But it is unlikely to be anything like some have suggested, such as a 44x 400. That would require a quantum leap in his best 200 time.
The phrase you are looking for is “improve his 200m” time, not “quantum leap in his best 200m time.”
Most people improve their 9th grade 200m substantially. I’m sure you know this. In fact, I would bet Cooper’s 47.2 open is faster than 90% of every person earth who has run sub 45.
So they all made quantum leaps according to you.
A relevant comp is Will Sumner. Cooper has a faster 200m & 400m time than Sumner did as a sophomore. Showed significantly faster sprinting ability, both 400m/800m focused.
Will ran 45.06 last season coming off of injury at 21.
Lutkenhaus bears no relationship to any other runners his age except perhaps for Wilson and Ruthe. That is why those runners feature here - they are standard-out age prodigies. There is nothing typical about their development. Most 9th grade runners might improve their 800 time by 5-10 secs in their careers. Lutkenhaus will absolutely not do that from 1:42x.
At the level he currently is, an "improvement" from 22.1 for the 200 to sub-21 is absolutely a quantum leap. They are times recorded by different types of athletes. Sub-21 is sprinter speed. Lutkenhaus is not a sprinter, he is a md athlete. He will be doing extremely well to go 21-high. That is exceptionally fast for a md athlete.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
You confuse scepticism with jealousy. If he is "easily faster" you could point to a time that he has run that shows it. But you can't. So you only think he is faster. He might be. But it is unlikely to be anything like some have suggested, such as a 44x 400. That would require a quantum leap in his best 200 time.
The phrase you are looking for is “improve his 200m” time, not “quantum leap in his best 200m time.”
Most people improve their 9th grade 200m substantially. I’m sure you know this. In fact, I would bet Cooper’s 47.2 open is faster than 90% of every person earth who has run sub 45.
So they all made quantum leaps according to you.
A relevant comp is Will Sumner. Cooper has a faster 200m & 400m time than Sumner did as a sophomore. Showed significantly faster sprinting ability, both 400m/800m focused.
Will ran 45.06 last season coming off of injury at 21.
Cooper’s best open is 46.03 in May of ‘25. After running a 1:47.04 800m earlier in the same meet (State finals).
The phrase you are looking for is “improve his 200m” time, not “quantum leap in his best 200m time.”
Most people improve their 9th grade 200m substantially. I’m sure you know this. In fact, I would bet Cooper’s 47.2 open is faster than 90% of every person earth who has run sub 45.
So they all made quantum leaps according to you.
A relevant comp is Will Sumner. Cooper has a faster 200m & 400m time than Sumner did as a sophomore. Showed significantly faster sprinting ability, both 400m/800m focused.
Will ran 45.06 last season coming off of injury at 21.
Cooper’s best open is 46.03 in May of ‘25. After running a 1:47.04 800m earlier in the same meet (State finals).
Yes, at 16 Lutkenhaus was faster than a lot of guys at 16, including Wariner. Maybe his coach is right and he will break 45 if he spends time focused on it.
I’m glad we came to a sort of agreement. You believe it’s unlikely, meaning you admit there’s a possibility that he’ll make the jump to 44x (though unlikely in your opinion).
I wouldn't bet on what is unlikely.
Me neither, but we have different perspectives as to what's unlikely.