Nuguse & Kessler go home DEVASTATED. Koech FTW, Strand and Hocker make the team

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Tman46 wrote:

In the indoor season, Hobbs said he trains more like a 5000 runner. But also around that time he said he never runs longer than 7 miles. He also said he thinks he's a better 5000 runner than 800 guy. Then he laid down a ho-hum 7:35 3000 indoor (bersus 7:23 for Hocker in another race) which he openly admitted he was disappointed with and correctly said its mot world class. Then after the 1500 heat at the championships the other day he said he focused on adding anaerobic tools and may have given up some aerobic strength ovrr the ladt two months to do so. He sounds a bit all over the map with his training direction. Personally I think he needs to build more aerobic strength so he can kick off a fast pace at the end of the 1500, which like you said, he has not shown to date. If Nico Young can develop a kick, Hobbs certainly can as well.

While I agree with you, a kick in a 5,000 or 3,000 even is a bit different than a 1,500. Outside of Shelby, who are the 1500m runners whose signature became the kick later in their development?

Even for some of the late-career improvers, most aren’t conjuring unbelievable kicks as they improve in a 1500. Josette Andrews still struggles to kick in a 1500, Jessica Hull does too. George Mills similarly. The USA kickers like Hiltz, Hocker were known for it. As was Wightman. Not even getting into Katir who had a nothing last 100 even doped to the gills.

king999 wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

While I agree with you, a kick in a 5,000 or 3,000 even is a bit different than a 1,500. Outside of Shelby, who are the 1500m runners whose signature became the kick later in their development?

Even for some of the late-career improvers, most aren’t conjuring unbelievable kicks as they improve in a 1500. Josette Andrews still struggles to kick in a 1500, Jessica Hull does too. George Mills similarly. The USA kickers like Hiltz, Hocker were known for it. As was Wightman. Not even getting into Katir who had a nothing last 100 even doped to the gills.

No secret the Hobbs is no longer trained by Ron .Hobbs’ only failing is getting easier to see. Top three, last 300 sub 40.00

hobbs 40.53? Not horrible but It’s a common theme , great position rolled over right at top of turn, not able to punch down last 75-90m.

Hobbs is the fastest 800 guy in most of these but obviously not the fastest 15 guy last 90m which is surprising to me. By now. Ron had told me years ago his standing and flying 200 speed was very fast at the time.

i think everyone is addicted to double threshold, when sometimes old school just works

Hobbs does not run that many 150’s as he used to.

I think he ran a pretty good race …3:31.12 in a non paced final is tough to be fourth in.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

king999 wrote:

No secret the Hobbs is no longer trained by Ron .Hobbs’ only failing is getting easier to see. Top three, last 300 sub 40.00

hobbs 40.53? Not horrible but It’s a common theme , great position rolled over right at top of turn, not able to punch down last 75-90m.

Hobbs is the fastest 800 guy in most of these but obviously not the fastest 15 guy last 90m which is surprising to me. By now. Ron had told me years ago his standing and flying 200 speed was very fast at the time.

i think everyone is addicted to double threshold, when sometimes old school just works

Hobbs does not run that many 150’s as he used to.

I think he ran a pretty good race …3:31.12 in a non paced final is tough to be fourth in.

I’d agree, but I’m not sure there’s an easy solve as I said. A kick in a 1500 not something that magically appears at this level. This isn’t about burning matches too early as Hobbs would say. This is about activating to a gear that might defy an athlete their entire career.

objectiveobserver wrote:

king999 wrote:

No secret the Hobbs is no longer trained by Ron .Hobbs’ only failing is getting easier to see. Top three, last 300 sub 40.00

hobbs 40.53? Not horrible but It’s a common theme , great position rolled over right at top of turn, not able to punch down last 75-90m.

Hobbs is the fastest 800 guy in most of these but obviously not the fastest 15 guy last 90m which is surprising to me. By now. Ron had told me years ago his standing and flying 200 speed was very fast at the time.

i think everyone is addicted to double threshold, when sometimes old school just works

Hobbs does not run that many 150’s as he used to.

I think he ran a pretty good race …3:31.12 in a non paced final is tough to be fourth in.

Hobbs drafted all the way as in a perfect DL time trial!?

rojo wrote:

This has got to be one of the last thought out posts in letsrun history.

Look, Hocker and Koech could a) both be doping b) both not be doping or c) one of them could be doping but not the other.

But if I was a sports book and I'm making betting odds that one ever tests postitive, you'd have the odds for Koech at least 300% higher than Hockers.

1) Hocker has shown himself to be a GREAT talent his entire life.

I believe he won his first national title at age 9. Then in HS he won the Footlocker xc title while barley running. In college, he won the mie and 3k on the same day in like the span of 90 minutes, beating an older and fresh Cooper Teare in the process. That was indoors in 2021. Outdoors, that year, he silenced reigning Olympic champ Matthew Centrowitz and won the US Trials and finish 6th in the Olympics - all after turning 21 that June.

When Koech was 21,he was 9th in the NCAA mile and 6th in the NCAA 800. His pbs were 1:46 and 4:01 for the mile (at altitude)

2) Hocker as a top talent who was born and raised in the US and has presumably been part of the out of testing pool for a long damn time given his stature Koech is from Kenya - which is like #2 in the world in doping - and still trains there at times.

I think it's wrong that someone says Koech is doped to his eyeballs. That's not factualy correct. That post honestly should be deleted. We like it if people say "I think he is.."

But to act like he's only saying it because he's African is absurd.

There have been a number of posts implying all criticism of Koech is racially motivated. I just think that's really weak, lazy argument. As if no one on here doubted Galen Rupp for 10+ years.

But all of this means nothing. The reality is both are eligible to compete. I've heard nothing about either of them. But let's not act like there isn't a MAJOR doping problem for athletes who train in Kenya.

PS. 300% means nothing if the odds are 1% and 3%.