Yes, he 'recovered' to the extent of winning the Gold medal and setting a WR in the process, but having an illness and being treated with penicillin 48 hours before the final makes it unlikely he was 100% in the final. He was just so much better than anybody else at that time.
Reminds me of Kip Keino's Olympic record in Mexico City.
Yes, he 'recovered' to the extent of winning the Gold medal and setting a WR in the process, but having an illness and being treated with penicillin 48 hours before the final makes it unlikely he was 100% in the final. He was just so much better than anybody else at that time.
Reminds me of Kip Keino's Olympic record in Mexico City.
Yeah, and given that Kippers front ran the sea-level equivalent of 3:24 in 1968, that's pretty scary to think he probably would have run 3 or 4 seconds faster still.
According to Jonathan Gault, he is coached by the same guy who coached MakhDaddy, which is all you need to know. He also only switched alleigance to France from Morocco in 2019, which makes it even more of an absurd doping farce.
For the record, Habz, who changed allegiance from Morocco to France in 2019, is based in Paris, where he trains under coaches Philippe Dupont (his main coach) and Serge Olivares. Dupont previously coached Olympic champion Taoufik Makhloufi starting in 2015 after he parted ways with Jama Aden.
Hopefully Jimmy Gressier can take a look in his locker.
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meanwhile Letsrun brass blows it up as a phenominal race.
absolute garbage end to end
according to pundits, koech is clean as he is too young and innocent. he looks youthful so he is legit. habz is the only doper in this race. of course i admit there exist an 18 yr old hamza driouch and mo aman who were caught dopers but koech seems like the real deal.
You need glasses if you think Koech looks young, as in being a teenager. He’s early 20s at least, like most - not all, but most - E. African teen sensations.
Mo Farah ran a couple 3:28s at the age of 30 and 32. At that time, he was #6 all time fastest.
Nick Willis never broke 3:30 until he was 31, and his PB was set at 32.
Seb Coe's PB was set just shy of his 30th birthday.
I agree with the posters that say "look at context". To run sub-3:30 requires getting in a race that can be that fast, with high quality competition and fast tracks, wavelights, new shoes, bicarb, etc.
31 is unusually old for a 1500 m PR at the very top, yes. That you found only 3 other, somewhat similar examples spanning four decades, one of them more suspicious than the other, actually emphasizes that point.
according to pundits, koech is clean as he is too young and innocent. he looks youthful so he is legit. habz is the only doper in this race. of course i admit there exist an 18 yr old hamza driouch and mo aman who were caught dopers but koech seems like the real deal.
You need glasses if you think Koech looks young, as in being a teenager. He’s early 20s at least, like most - not all, but most - E. African teen sensations.
Yeah… here’s the new “teen wonder” LAST YEAR…lol “teen”:
According to Jonathan Gault, he is coached by the same guy who coached MakhDaddy, which is all you need to know. He also only switched alleigance to France from Morocco in 2019, which makes it even more of an absurd doping farce.
Hopefully Jimmy Gressier can take a look in his locker.
Yes, same coach. I don’t think of the national representation meaning a whole lot. Somewhat irrelevant for a guy who wasn’t sniffing an international team. I agree on suspicions around any coach willing to work with Makh Daddy.
i think most people wouldn’t he shocked about a 5th or 6th year pro PBing in the 1500. With Habz it’s why is a guy only in that part of his career at 32. Similar to Nordas why messing around with half marathons and 10Ks at all with no shortage of speed.
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That is light years the best summary in the thread. Nobody else even bothered to account for the situational influence.
This race was set up for Habz. It's probably the only time in his career that will happen. They moved a non-Diamond League race into the Diamond League window for him. Every variable cooperated.
I knew it wouldn't be a normal race when Stefan Nillessen settled fairly close to the lead in a fast pace. He's never done anything like that.
Jakob has often bemoaned the lack of ideal pacing in some of his record attempts, that he'd like to have something similar to what El Gerrouj enjoyed. This is as close as we've seen to that, with the meet director screaming at the pacemaker and then the pacemaker screaming encouragement to Habz. Habz ran near the minimum distance. Those measures have been available in horse racing (trip handicapping) for decades and have finally emerged in this sport.
Coming off the final turn with 150 to go I expected Habz to flatten out. But then the key moment, just as runfrancisco described. This wasn't solo. Koech was right there. In a solo race Habz was favorite to flatten out. But you could see the determination etched on his face. The infield camera angle was perfect. He kicked again. It's the most energy and motivation he'll ever have in his athletic life.
If he ran 3:28 but lost the crowd would have been deflated and the commentators offering rationalizations. Instead Habz had his defining moment. Never a sleepless second guessing. He's not a 3:27 runner. He ran 3:27 on that day.
In addition to that, there's the Baala, Mama, and Sleeping-In-His-Own-Bed factor, as he went to University of Paris 8, and resides and trains in Paris. Habz mentioned that Mehdi had provided encouragement before the race (and was obviously there right afterwards for the embrace and NR pictures). I can imagine he (and El G) were among Habz's idols growing up. He also said that his Mom was there to encourage him, and it gave him wings.
From L'Équipe:
« C'est incroyable, réagissait, au micro de la chaîne L'Équipe, Azeddine Habz après sa performance majuscule. À Paris, c'est magique. Ma mère était là pour m'encourager et ça m'a donné des ailes. Je me suis senti porté dans les 400 derniers mètres. C'est incroyable (il se répète), je n'arrive pas à réaliser pour l'instant »
I think there’s been stuff written about Habz but he was not a serious pro until age 26-27. I’ll look if we can exactly know why. It’s different than Farah who went from elite also-ran to world beater. Habz was on the fringe of sub-elite.
Heres an article that doesn’t go too far back but has some interesting details on training:
According to Jonathan Gault, he is coached by the same guy who coached MakhDaddy, which is all you need to know. He also only switched alleigance to France from Morocco in 2019, which makes it even more of an absurd doping farce.
For the record,...
Hopefully Jimmy Gressier can take a look in his locker.
What era you are living in? the middle ages. Even in the middle ages ... maybe I should recall you the time when the emperor Abbasid Caliph Harun al-Rashid send a gift that drew the greatest gasps of astonishment in Charlemagne’s court, and for centuries to come in Europe, and that was a sophisticated water clock. Almost a millennium before the invention of the cuckoo clock in Germany, this water-powered timepiece was a masterpiece of contemporary engineering.
Mo Farah ran a couple 3:28s at the age of 30 and 32. At that time, he was #6 all time fastest.
Nick Willis never broke 3:30 until he was 31, and his PB was set at 32.
Seb Coe's PB was set just shy of his 30th birthday.
I agree with the posters that say "look at context". To run sub-3:30 requires getting in a race that can be that fast, with high quality competition and fast tracks, wavelights, new shoes, bicarb, etc.
31 is unusually old for a 1500 m PR at the very top, yes. That you found only 3 other, somewhat similar examples spanning four decades, one of them more suspicious than the other, actually emphasizes that point.
Rekrunner is still struggling through Chapter One of the 'Logic for Dummies' book his mom bought him for Christmas in 1992.
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What era you are living in? the middle ages. Even in the middle ages ... maybe I should recall you the time when the emperor Abbasid Caliph Harun al-Rashid send a gift that drew the greatest gasps of astonishment in Charlemagne’s court, and for centuries to come in Europe, and that was a sophisticated water clock. Almost a millennium before the invention of the cuckoo clock in Germany, this water-powered timepiece was a masterpiece of contemporary engineering.
The Arabs stole that idea from the Indians, like nearly everything they 'invented'.
Check out the difference at the finish between Habz and all the guys that ran the 5k. Habz looked like he'd finished a jog. The 5k guys were on the deck. The similarities between Habz and Katir are near enough to be a red flag.
What era you are living in? the middle ages. Even in the middle ages ... maybe I should recall you the time when the emperor Abbasid Caliph Harun al-Rashid send a gift that drew the greatest gasps of astonishment in Charlemagne’s court, and for centuries to come in Europe, and that was a sophisticated water clock. Almost a millennium before the invention of the cuckoo clock in Germany, this water-powered timepiece was a masterpiece of contemporary engineering.
The Arabs stole that idea from the Indians, like nearly everything they 'invented'.
31 is unusually old for a 1500 m PR at the very top, yes. That you found only 3 other, somewhat similar examples spanning four decades, one of them more suspicious than the other, actually emphasizes that point.
Whether any of them are "suspicious" depends as much on the suspector as the athlete.
I guess it depends on what one considers "unusual". Before the era of supershoes (1985-2017), there are only about 30 sub-3:30 runners to choose from, and 10% of them were over 30 years old when they set their PBs.
In their late 20s, Sydney Maree was just shy of 29. Iguider, Cacho, and Laalou were 28. Lagat, and Makhloufi were 27. That's 30%. (Bile was 28 when he ran 3:30.55).
The median and average is about 25, and 7 runners were 22.
It looks like if a runner's career is long enough, and they do not succumb to injury or retirement or mental fatigue, age into early 30s is not necessarily a factor preventing a PB in the 1500m.
Reminds me of Kip Keino's Olympic record in Mexico City.
Yeah, and given that Kippers front ran the sea-level equivalent of 3:24 in 1968, that's pretty scary to think he probably would have run 3 or 4 seconds faster still.
According to you: "but having an illness and being treated (in the hospital) before the final makes it unlikely he was 100% in the final. He was just so much better than anybody else at that time."
So you think Elliot could run 3:25 today, and Keino could run at least 3:24 or 3-4 seconds faster. We could squabble about your estimated times, but the difference of 3-4 seconds seems to fit rather well with the model of historical East African superiority in the 1500m/mile.
You need glasses if you think Koech looks young, as in being a teenager. He’s early 20s at least, like most - not all, but most - E. African teen sensations.
Yeah… here’s the new “teen wonder” LAST YEAR…lol “teen”:
31 is unusually old for a 1500 m PR at the very top, yes. That you found only 3 other, somewhat similar examples spanning four decades, one of them more suspicious than the other, actually emphasizes that point.
Whether any of them are "suspicious" depends as much on the suspector as the athlete.
I guess it depends on what one considers "unusual". Before the era of supershoes (1985-2017), there are only about 30 sub-3:30 runners to choose from, and 10% of them were over 30 years old when they set their PBs.
In their late 20s, Sydney Maree was just shy of 29. Iguider, Cacho, and Laalou were 28. Lagat, and Makhloufi were 27. That's 30%. (Bile was 28 when he ran 3:30.55).
The median and average is about 25, and 7 runners were 22.
It looks like if a runner's career is long enough, and they do not succumb to injury or retirement or mental fatigue, age into early 30s is not necessarily a factor preventing a PB in the 1500m.
So first you included a 29 year old to show that 31 is not unusual, and found 3 examples in 4 decades (1 age 29, 1 age 30, 1 age 32).
Now you added on to your stupidity, included 27 year old athletes and found - wow - even more athletes.
Let's look at the real numbers. "10% of them were over 30 years old when they set their PBs". Nope. Wrong.
Actually only 1 (one) ! was 31 or older.
Nice graph here showing Habz's outlier performance (thank you, FuriousBrit):
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