Honestly these are kids. I’d tell my girl to get up on the d@mn stand and enjoy this. It’s not the time for a political statement. They’re not John Carlos and Tommie Smith. I’m sure their parents put a lot of this bs in their heads. 99% of people know boys shouldn’t be in girls sports but why sully your state tournament by not getting on the stand? I dunno my daughter would have to have a dang strong opinion on it for me to even think about letting her do that.
Honestly these are kids. I’d tell my girl to get up on the d@mn stand and enjoy this. It’s not the time for a political statement. They’re not John Carlos and Tommie Smith. I’m sure their parents put a lot of this bs in their heads. 99% of people know boys shouldn’t be in girls sports but why sully your state tournament by not getting on the stand? I dunno my daughter would have to have a dang strong opinion on it for me to even think about letting her do that.
She couldn’t do it anyway. The track official had undoubtedly been told to treat the transgender athlete with the respect as given to other athletes, and allowing the protesting girls in the photo would run conflict with directive.
Honestly these are kids. I’d tell my girl to get up on the d@mn stand and enjoy this. It’s not the time for a political statement. They’re not John Carlos and Tommie Smith. I’m sure their parents put a lot of this bs in their heads. 99% of people know boys shouldn’t be in girls sports but why sully your state tournament by not getting on the stand? I dunno my daughter would have to have a dang strong opinion on it for me to even think about letting her do that.
Great post.
Imagine encouraging your kid to bully a child who is just competing in the division where they are allowed and encouraged by the meet to be. Like 1960s kids who got out of the country club pool when a black kid got in.
This is just an embarrassment to the meet and probably to these kids in another 5-10-20 years when they have some real-world experience and look back at themselves.
What I said is that children should not be made to have a genital exam with the results reported to the state. (I support minimal government intrusion into such things.)
If you’re really a parent and a medical doctor like you say you are, then I'm really suprised you don't already know that if your children were born in the USA - or you legally immigrated to the USA after they were born - and your children are minors enrolled in US public schools, and they play school sports, then a lot of information about their health has already been reported to the state.
The information about your children already reported to the state starts with details related to their birth. This includes each child's DOB, TOB, POB, mother's name, birthweight, Agpar score, general state of health and - yes- their sex as observed, recorded, confirmed and agreed to by the health care personnel, parent(s) and other people who were present at or soon after the birth and who visually examined and also touched the child's genitals as a matter of course as part of the standard regimen of medical checks, diapering, wiping, powdering, ointment-applying, bathing, swaddling and so on that make up many of the basic elelents of baby care.
If your children were born in the USA, then the government of the state/jurisdiction where they were born has information about them - including their sex - in their vital records, birth registry and health department databases going back to before each child was born.
Here’s a copy of the U.S. STANDARD CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH which shows the basc kind of info that HCPs/HCFs in the USA customarily provide to state health departments to create a record of a live birth:
Below are examples from three of the largest states in the USA in terms of population - CA, NY and TX - showing the kind of paperwork that parents - in most cases, the mothers - customarily have to fill out in order to register a child's birth and create and obtain a birth certificate.
In many US hospitals/health care facilties, birth registry staff fill out and submit the final forms to the appropriate government agency/ies to create a birth record and register a birth so that the parents don't have to do it on their own. Since the final forms are all filled and filed electronically nowadays, a mother who's given birth in a hospital in the US will typically be presented with the form filled out and ready to file on a tablet for her to read over, check and sign before it's submitted. But much of the info that goes on the final form will have come from the pre-registration worksheet forms the mother filled out on paper or online toward the end of the pregnancy.
Here are the forms from four other states - CT, MN, NC and GA - so you can see how common it is for results of the "genital exams" that all children routinely get as babies to be reported to the state years before kids are old enough to start playing sports.
Thanks for this. It was quite shocking to see pages of posts debating middle school genital examination vs self-declaration -- as if these are the only two options when in fact both are terrible ideas and there are some obvious alternatives.
Part of the problem is how much emphasis is put on high school sport in the US. Of course female categories in competitive sport should be reserved for females, but it's odd to me as an Australian that Americans care so much about school sport, that you have state-wide leagues and champions etc. Our school sport was going out and playing a different sport every few weeks, just being physical and fun and staying fit. The closest to a real competition was Country Week, which was only for country kids, and more a social thing, with everyone else not going to it doing work experience instead. It wasn't that important. There were obviously athletics clubs etc, and whatever meets they arranged, but that wasn't a huge thing, and was separate from schools. Sport was just having a fun kick-around for us.
Competitive sport is the real problem here, especially that it starts so young and is so full-on in the US. Let kids be kids. Leave the competitive leagues (and hence the cheek swabs etc) to adulthood, when competitors can make an informed decision as an adult whether they wish to participate or not - because you have to remember as well, that some of those kids are only playing sport because their parents force them to. It's a bit unfair to out kids with DSDs when they might not even want to be competing anyway. Sex as recorded at birth (and not altered by a retrospective change to a birth certificate) is enough for school sports, they shouldn't matter as much as they do over there in America.
And obviously no genital inspections on minors. Cheek swabs if you really have to check, but it shouldn't matter for school sports, because school sports shouldn't matter so much, full stop. That's the thing that's really nuts here, the emphasis on school sports.
Part of the problem is how much emphasis is put on high school sport in the US. Of course female categories in competitive sport should be reserved for females, but it's odd to me as an Australian that Americans care so much about school sport, that you have state-wide leagues and champions etc. Our school sport was going out and playing a different sport every few weeks, just being physical and fun and staying fit. The closest to a real competition was Country Week, which was only for country kids, and more a social thing, with everyone else not going to it doing work experience instead. It wasn't that important. There were obviously athletics clubs etc, and whatever meets they arranged, but that wasn't a huge thing, and was separate from schools. Sport was just having a fun kick-around for us.
Competitive sport is the real problem here, especially that it starts so young and is so full-on in the US. Let kids be kids. Leave the competitive leagues (and hence the cheek swabs etc) to adulthood, when competitors can make an informed decision as an adult whether they wish to participate or not - because you have to remember as well, that some of those kids are only playing sport because their parents force them to. It's a bit unfair to out kids with DSDs when they might not even want to be competing anyway. Sex as recorded at birth (and not altered by a retrospective change to a birth certificate) is enough for school sports, they shouldn't matter as much as they do over there in America.
And obviously no genital inspections on minors. Cheek swabs if you really have to check, but it shouldn't matter for school sports, because school sports shouldn't matter so much, full stop. That's the thing that's really nuts here, the emphasis on school sports.
But it is part of schools here and that is not going to change. The team aspect of playing a sport is magnified 100x when you play for your school vs playing on some club. So is the participation of your schoolmates cheering you on. No one cares that you hit the game winning shot for your club team last week.
There is a reason why many high school athletes cry at the end of their final game -- they know they will never be able to experience the feeling of playing for a school team again.
Honestly these are kids. I’d tell my girl to get up on the d@mn stand and enjoy this. It’s not the time for a political statement. They’re not John Carlos and Tommie Smith. I’m sure their parents put a lot of this bs in their heads. 99% of people know boys shouldn’t be in girls sports but why sully your state tournament by not getting on the stand? I dunno my daughter would have to have a dang strong opinion on it for me to even think about letting her do that.
Great post.
Imagine encouraging your kid to bully a child who is just competing in the division where they are allowed and encouraged by the meet to be. Like 1960s kids who got out of the country club pool when a black kid got in.
This is just an embarrassment to the meet and probably to these kids in another 5-10-20 years when they have some real-world experience and look back at themselves.
You really do hate women. Awful parenting you must have had, just awful. And now you want to take it out on real women.
The official that wouldn't let the two girls be in the podium picture with their backs turned is a disgrace. People like him are part of the problem. Shame on him.
When the world looks back on this footage, this official will be like Tom Miller shoving away dinosaur Jock Semple, when Semple tried to take Katherine Switzer our of the Boston Marathon.
That is already how he looks to the non-transphobe world, the majority of every civilized country.
Bravo, indeed!
The silver lining is that the ignorance, sexism, immorality, and also passion of people like you will keep your party out of power for decades to come. Bravo to that.
If one of those girls was my daughter, she would be in the picture. I would be down on the track making sure it happened.
Several officials would ask you to leave and if you wanted to get physical about it, which you seem to be implying, you could be charged with assault.
There wouldn't be anything physical about it. If it was my daughters wish to be up on the podium with her back facing the camera in protest, I would be down there by the podium making sure that is exactly what would happen. And it would.
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Several officials would ask you to leave and if you wanted to get physical about it, which you seem to be implying, you could be charged with assault.
There wouldn't be anything physical about it. If it was my daughter’s wish to be up on the podium with her back facing the camera in protest, I would be down there by the podium making sure that is exactly what would happen. And it would.
There are police officers at a state meet and the meet official would call one over. Unless you wanted to be arrested, that would be the end of it. Why do you think a track official would take sh*t from you? No matter what the issue is, you would be challenging his authority.
That's right, Dad, Keep your thumb on your daughter. How dare she have an opinion contrary to yours. Men rule the house. The girls should shut up & take what is dished out to them. Yes, parents put a lot of BS in their kid's heads.
There wouldn't be anything physical about it. If it was my daughter’s wish to be up on the podium with her back facing the camera in protest, I would be down there by the podium making sure that is exactly what would happen. And it would.
There are police officers at a state meet and the meet official would call one over. Unless you wanted to be arrested, that would be the end of it. Why do you think a track official would take sh*t from you? No matter what the issue is, you would be challenging his authority.
It's not about taking sh*t from anyone. I would make sure the picture was taken, and do so by not touching the official or anyone else in any way. I'm confident I could intimidate him solely based on how I look and by my non violent overtly aggressive tone. Sure, he could call the cops over, and since most cops are tyrants, I'm sure they will initiate force on me and haul me out of there. And guess what? The next day I would file several lawsuits and also be invited onto Fox News, and probably get to meet Greg Gutfeld and Emily Compagno.
This post was edited 13 minutes after it was posted.
There are police officers at a state meet and the meet official would call one over. Unless you wanted to be arrested, that would be the end of it. Why do you think a track official would take sh*t from you? No matter what the issue is, you would be challenging his authority.
It's not about taking sh*t from anyone. I would make sure the picture was taken, and do so by not touching the official or anyone else in any way. I'm confident I could intimidate him solely based on how I look and by my non violent overltly aggressive tone. Sure, he could call the cops over, and since most cops are tyrants, I'm sure they will initiate force on me and haul me out of there. And guess what? The next day I would file several lawsuits and also be invited onto Fox News, and probably get to me Greg Gutfeld and Emily Compagno.
You sound like a psycho, but good luck suing cops for doing their jobs. You would have be the aggressor in our imaginary confrontation, and no media of any form would be interested in your story.
The housing shortage isn't the only one. There is obviously a critical shortage of closets these days.
exactly, the issue is architectural, there just isn't the same room in modern buildings for closet space. so you have to include them in normal house space. the GOP is stuck back in the 1950s. at which point, well, it wasn't only gays we excluded.
i see 2 constructive solutions to the issue
1) trans compete as their chosen identity
2) we carve out a third open category. to me trans are not the only excluded kids, where are blade runners, paralympians, wheelchair, special olympics, etc.?
third category is your politically neutral bridge to dealing with the issue. but based on endless threads like this, i don't think people want it sorted. this is the new "abortion" culture war cudgel for the right wing. as with the border, the last thing they want is a solution. they want a "problem" to fight about.
if you actually care about HS sports, you want the tourists gone and some sort of broadly agreeable solution. i think open is the solution for a few decades while people grow up. as you're saying, we only avoided this issue by forcing it in a closet. after gay marriage, it's out of the closet. it's highly unlikely it's going back in. so we need some solution that is less bigoted than either go back in the closet or compete as a boy after school after being a girl all day at school.
It's not about taking sh*t from anyone. I would make sure the picture was taken, and do so by not touching the official or anyone else in any way. I'm confident I could intimidate him solely based on how I look and by my non violent overltly aggressive tone. Sure, he could call the cops over, and since most cops are tyrants, I'm sure they will initiate force on me and haul me out of there. And guess what? The next day I would file several lawsuits and also be invited onto Fox News, and probably get to me Greg Gutfeld and Emily Compagno.
You sound like a psycho, but good luck suing cops for doing their jobs. You would have be the aggressor in our imaginary confrontation, and no media of any form would be interested in your story.
That's exactly it. You get people to THINK you are a psycho, and then they usually do what you tell them to do.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
and people can pout about how open would increase the size of meets, but individual wheelchair or trans athletes tend to be few where allowed to compete. and if open did draw a bunch of kids out to play, then we had a hidden problem and have tripped over finding it and getting more involved.
the discussion of australian sport is unhelpful. club track barely exists here. most kids do it through schools. this is why the schools have become the prominent contested spot for this issue. i went through years of school track and barely knew anything but foot locker existed.
compared to, i was busy playing soccer year-round, either select or school ball. there, school ball is secondary or parasitic of select. there's also adult leagues, coed leagues, indoor, and pickup ball. a bigot can't try to cut trans people out of soccer by attacking one place, as one can still find a game of pickup, or join a coed team, or see about adult or indoor.
what's not being admitted is this is like Plan D after some earlier anti-trans efforts such as bathroom bills, pronouns, stuff like that. there is a basic schizophrenia at work where this is ok for class hours but not for sports. that sort of contradiction reflects we have not yet fully sorted the policy response.
You sound like a psycho, but good luck suing cops for doing their jobs. You would have be the aggressor in our imaginary confrontation, and no media of any form would be interested in your story.
That's exactly it. You get people to THINK you are a psycho, and then they usually do what you tell them to do.
OK. Your skill might be useful in arguing over a parking space, but the official has the power of the police behind him, and you’re just not going to get what you want. Even if the official hates transgender athletes as much as you do, he can’t allow an eligible athlete to be disrespected.
The mini-protest was meaningless, anyway. Change will come through the courts or threats from Trump and not a photo-op.
we won a big labor day soccer tournament in our state a few times. if we'd had some political beef we could win another. one time a team that never made state and only made that tournament final once, pulled their team off the field in the tournament championship after 10 minutes and skipped the trophies, because of a red card and penalty goal they didn't like.
that's the only time that team ever accomplished anything, and their memory of it is they went to their cars after 10 minutes and turned down the trophies.
many of the kids at these meets, this is their success window. they maybe had to work up from JV and burn some time. they had to get good enough on varsity. they finally make state. they finish where they finish, that one time. and you want them to walk off for political reasons. that's "state" for you for all time. you better be very sure. and you better be sure you will think the same thing in 20 years.
last, there is the politics of nitpicking. one kid cannot alter your standing that much. you just had to beat 1000s of kids to get to state. you just placed. you made the ceremony. and you're gonna toss that over the politics of precisely what place it should have been -- one slot.
particularly when you're barely getting a place that gets a bit silly. and even if you end up second, what sane person turns down a state podium medal.