A nearly healthy Tim was bad news as he helped bridge the gap up to Jakob, but a fully healthy means someones up for setting up a fast race. Would be interesting to see how it looks like when Jakob is not the pacer in a championship final, against the current competitors.
Interesting thought! Would he let Tim take it from the front? It's a real question as I'm less sure Tim wants a 3:28 race any more. He might be content to run 57-second laps and kicking.
Great run by Jakob. Clearly a level above everybody else when it comes to paced, lights-aided time trials. But let's not extrapolate from these fantastic races to a championship race without pacers or lights. When he needs to do the work, there are others close enough to beat him as we saw last year. He was 4th, and that's with Laros injured for a big chunk of the year. He may well have a year with 8 or 9 straight wins in DL and other meets, maybe even the WR in the 1500, and yet finish out of the medals again.
Not attacking you specifically, but I find this line of thinking so strange. Yeah, lets not extrapolate from these timed races to a championship race without pacers and lights, lets rather look at Jakobs championship races.
In 13 championship finals (senior, outdoors) he have won gold 9 times, silver 3 times and been out of the podium only one time. Who have a better track record in championships amongst those he compete with?
Yes, there is no guaranteed win at all, but lets not pretend that Jakob suck at the championship format.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Great run by Jakob. Clearly a level above everybody else when it comes to paced, lights-aided time trials. But let's not extrapolate from these fantastic races to a championship race without pacers or lights. When he needs to do the work, there are others close enough to beat him as we saw last year. He was 4th, and that's with Laros injured for a big chunk of the year. He may well have a year with 8 or 9 straight wins in DL and other meets, maybe even the WR in the 1500, and yet finish out of the medals again.
Not attacking you specifically, but I find this line of thinking so strange. Yeah, lets not extrapolate from these timed races to a championship race without pacers and lights, lets rather look at Jakobs championship races.
In 13 championship finals (senior, outdoors) he have won gold 9 times, silver 3 times and been out of the podium only one time. Who have a better track record in championships amongst those he compete with?
Yes, there is no guaranteed win at all, but lets not pretend that Jakob suck at the championship format.
This line of thinking is typical of American’s who have the attention span of a goldfish.
Not attacking you specifically, but I find this line of thinking so strange. Yeah, lets not extrapolate from these timed races to a championship race without pacers and lights, lets rather look at Jakobs championship races.
In 13 championship finals (senior, outdoors) he have won gold 9 times, silver 3 times and been out of the podium only one time. Who have a better track record in championships amongst those he compete with?
Yes, there is no guaranteed win at all, but lets not pretend that Jakob suck at the championship format.
Jakob is a good championship runner.
He runs the rounds well and typically peaks well. He's gotten sick just once in 5 outdoor appearances? He's been fit in 5 of 5.
Whether it's unfair or fair, the discussion is Jakob vs. the field and not any one runner. If the discussion is gold or bust, it is understandable why posters are becoming wary of his prospects of winning another championship gold. In European competition he outclasses guys like Gourley, Garcia-Romo etc. But he can't expect to do that forever if Kerr or now Laros participate. And then on the world scene, we all know the evolving landscape.
Great run by Jakob. Clearly a level above everybody else when it comes to paced, lights-aided time trials. But let's not extrapolate from these fantastic races to a championship race without pacers or lights. When he needs to do the work, there are others close enough to beat him as we saw last year. He was 4th, and that's with Laros injured for a big chunk of the year. He may well have a year with 8 or 9 straight wins in DL and other meets, maybe even the WR in the 1500, and yet finish out of the medals again.
Not attacking you specifically, but I find this line of thinking so strange. Yeah, lets not extrapolate from these timed races to a championship race without pacers and lights, lets rather look at Jakobs championship races.
In 13 championship finals (senior, outdoors) he have won gold 9 times, silver 3 times and been out of the podium only one time. Who have a better track record in championships amongst those he compete with?
Yes, there is no guaranteed win at all, but lets not pretend that Jakob suck at the championship format.
Not sure what other championship finals you are including in your count, but if we limit the parameters to outdoor global championship 1500m finals, the line of thinking by "ransolo" is valid. Jakob has had the fastest 1500m time in the world each of the last three years, and in each of those years he didn't win the gold in that event.
Oh? How many medals have Nuguse won? I'll bet Jakob needs his help with competition mentality.
I know a guy in New Zealand who currently must be very happy.
Let's wait until he jumps in and shares his feelings about those two WRs with the forum.
He's struggling right now. Going through all the stages of grief. Lets not make fun of him for it as he still has not gotten over Sam Ruthe running fast.
Not attacking you specifically, but I find this line of thinking so strange. Yeah, lets not extrapolate from these timed races to a championship race without pacers and lights, lets rather look at Jakobs championship races.
In 13 championship finals (senior, outdoors) he have won gold 9 times, silver 3 times and been out of the podium only one time. Who have a better track record in championships amongst those he compete with?
Yes, there is no guaranteed win at all, but lets not pretend that Jakob suck at the championship format.
Not sure what other championship finals you are including in your count, but if we limit the parameters to outdoor global championship 1500m finals, the line of thinking by "ransolo" is valid. Jakob has had the fastest 1500m time in the world each of the last three years, and in each of those years he didn't win the gold in that event.
Not sure what other championship finals you are including in your count, but if we limit the parameters to outdoor global championship 1500m finals, the line of thinking by "ransolo" is valid. Jakob has had the fastest 1500m time in the world each of the last three years, and in each of those years he didn't win the gold in that event.
Reductionism at its finest.
I call it relevance. How he's done in Norwegian championships, Euro championships, or in 5,000m championships hold no relevance to the point "ransolo" was clearly making about this year's world championship 1500m final in Tokyo.
Hailu wins and wonders how the Federation will screw her outdoors again after she wins another world indoor title. Phenomenal athlete, complete BS situation.
Tsegay and her husband are entitled self promoting narcissists. Not many (if any) like Tsegay outside of her intimate training group. Hailus only crime was to seek better conditions and environment to further ner running career. Her reward was to both drastically improve AND subsequently be left out of the Ethiopians WC team due to Tsegays bitterness..
Not attacking you specifically, but I find this line of thinking so strange. Yeah, lets not extrapolate from these timed races to a championship race without pacers and lights, lets rather look at Jakobs championship races.
In 13 championship finals (senior, outdoors) he have won gold 9 times, silver 3 times and been out of the podium only one time. Who have a better track record in championships amongst those he compete with?
Yes, there is no guaranteed win at all, but lets not pretend that Jakob suck at the championship format.
Not sure what other championship finals you are including in your count, but if we limit the parameters to outdoor global championship 1500m finals, the line of thinking by "ransolo" is valid. Jakob has had the fastest 1500m time in the world each of the last three years, and in each of those years he didn't win the gold in that event.
Who else did win gold on each of those events? Who else has a better track record than gold-silver-silver-fourth?
Saying that he didn't win gold in 22'WC, 23'WC and the 24'olympics like that is the minimum for not sucking at championships is wild. You can turn that on the head and say he medalled in 3/4 championships. Only Kerr comes close to that, but somehow Ingebrigtsen have a problem with championships?
This post was edited 26 seconds after it was posted.
I call it relevance. How he's done in Norwegian championships, Euro championships, or in 5,000m championships hold no relevance to the point "ransolo" was clearly making about this year's world championship 1500m final in Tokyo.
I obviously did not count norwegian champs. The fact that you think that shows how easily people forget and disregard how much J.I have won. How is not european champions relevant? Check the nationalities of the medallist from the four latest global championships in the 1500m.
And even if we just look at the four last global championships, who have a better track record? Hocker? Nuguse? Kerr?
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
Not sure what other championship finals you are including in your count, but if we limit the parameters to outdoor global championship 1500m finals, the line of thinking by "ransolo" is valid. Jakob has had the fastest 1500m time in the world each of the last three years, and in each of those years he didn't win the gold in that event.
Who else did win gold on each of those events? Who else has a better track record than gold-silver-silver-fourth?
Saying that he didn't win gold in 22'WC, 23'WC and the 24'olympics like that is the minimum for not sucking at championships is wild. You can turn that on the head and say he medalled in 3/4 championships. Only Kerr comes close to that, but somehow Ingebrigtsen have a problem with championships?
Please stick to responding to things that are actually said if you want to have a fair discussion. I didn't say nor suggest that winning gold is the "minimum for not sucking." The point is having the fastest time in the world from a paced time trial setting doesn't mean that someone is going win an outdoor global championship final. I don't understand why that's such a contentious point. It's totally valid and proven.
Who else did win gold on each of those events? Who else has a better track record than gold-silver-silver-fourth?
Saying that he didn't win gold in 22'WC, 23'WC and the 24'olympics like that is the minimum for not sucking at championships is wild. You can turn that on the head and say he medalled in 3/4 championships. Only Kerr comes close to that, but somehow Ingebrigtsen have a problem with championships?
You guys are arguing separate things. That poster is weighing Jakob's claim to be the best in the world and validating that with gold medals. You are talking about being the best in the world and validating that with consistency and a full resume. In that regard, yes Jakob is the best. He achieves the best fitness, wins the most races, and tacks on the most accomplishments and records. But most track fans measure the success of a season with the global championship performance first. If he doesn't win there, he is not the best on the most important stage. While he might still be the annual no. 1, he will be remembered differently if his number of gold medals stays at 1 OR any of his contemporaries gets to 2.
Who else did win gold on each of those events? Who else has a better track record than gold-silver-silver-fourth?
Saying that he didn't win gold in 22'WC, 23'WC and the 24'olympics like that is the minimum for not sucking at championships is wild. You can turn that on the head and say he medalled in 3/4 championships. Only Kerr comes close to that, but somehow Ingebrigtsen have a problem with championships?
Please stick to responding to things that are actually said if you want to have a fair discussion. I didn't say nor suggest that winning gold is the "minimum for not sucking." The point is having the fastest time in the world from a paced time trial setting doesn't mean that someone is going win an outdoor global championship final. I don't understand why that's such a contentious point. It's totally valid and proven.
Who else did win gold on each of those events? Who else has a better track record than gold-silver-silver-fourth?
Saying that he didn't win gold in 22'WC, 23'WC and the 24'olympics like that is the minimum for not sucking at championships is wild. You can turn that on the head and say he medalled in 3/4 championships. Only Kerr comes close to that, but somehow Ingebrigtsen have a problem with championships?
You guys are arguing separate things. That poster is weighing Jakob's claim to be the best in the world and validating that with gold medals. You are talking about being the best in the world and validating that with consistency and a full resume. In that regard, yes Jakob is the best. He achieves the best fitness, wins the most races, and tacks on the most accomplishments and records. But most track fans measure the success of a season with the global championship performance first. If he doesn't win there, he is not the best on the most important stage. While he might still be the annual no. 1, he will be remembered differently if his number of gold medals stays at 1 OR any of his contemporaries gets to 2.
No I am talking about having championship medals. Which current 1500m runner have more championship medals? Cole Hocker got a sixt, a seventh, then a gold. Nuguse got a fifth and a bronze, Kerr (strongest competitor) did get a bronze, fifth, gold and silver.
Does a sixt, seventh and gold scream championship runner over a gold, silver, silver, fourth?
I dont understand the * people put on J.I championship record. The only way it makes sense is if you measure J.I against the rest of the world. But when arguing who is the best it can't be "everyone else" it has to be someone. Jakob has been at the podium at three of the four last global championships, only one runner can say the same. So how come running in championships is a unique liability with Jakob? Isn't it more that in the 1500 almost every champion loses to someone next time around?
Yes, Its something else to run in a championship final than to run a regular meet. But this is something that is only said about Jakob, which is weird since he is among the best/the best at championship finals as well.
This post was edited 16 minutes after it was posted.
No I am talking about having championship medals. Which current 1500m runner have more championship medals? Cole Hocker got a sixt, a seventh, then a gold. Nuguse got a fifth and a bronze, Kerr (strongest competitor) did get a bronze, fifth, gold and silver.
Does a sixt, seventh and gold scream championship runner over a gold, silver, silver, fourth?
I dont understand the * people put on J.I championship record. The only way it makes sense is if you measure J.I against the rest of the world. But when arguing who is the best it can't be "everyone else" it has to be someone. Jakob has been at the podium at three of the four last global championships, only one runner can say the same. So how come running in championships is a unique liability with Jakob? Isn't it more that in the 1500 almost every champion loses to someone next time around?
Yes, Its something else to run in a championship final than to run a regular meet. But this is something that is only said about Jakob, which is weird since he is among the best/the best at championship finals as well.
I guess what you are missing is that right or wrong people are accounting for where these guys are in their career. I've included the other guys where it's relevant.
2019: Jakob #2 in the world, finishes 4th in Doha. Kerr (~8/6),
2021: Jakob #1/2 in the world, finishes 1st in Tokyo. Kerr (3/3), Nuguse (injury), Hocker (8/6)
2022: Jakob #1 in the world, finishes 2nd in Eugene. Kerr (~10/5), Hocker/Nuguse (injury)
2023: Jakob #1 in the world, finishes 2nd in Budapest. Kerr (2 or 3/1), Hocker (~10/7), Nuguse (2 or 3/5)
2024: Jakob #1 in the world, finishes 4th in Paris. Kerr (2/2), Nuguse (4/3), Hocker (3/1)
The last 2 years Kerr has outperformed Jakob in championships, and you could argue others are primed to do the same. There should be more reservations about Nuguse of course as last year was the first time he really got it right when it came to championship season, and he still had some tactical troubles.
This post was edited 28 seconds after it was posted.
No I am talking about having championship medals. Which current 1500m runner have more championship medals? Cole Hocker got a sixt, a seventh, then a gold. Nuguse got a fifth and a bronze, Kerr (strongest competitor) did get a bronze, fifth, gold and silver.
Does a sixt, seventh and gold scream championship runner over a gold, silver, silver, fourth?
I dont understand the * people put on J.I championship record. The only way it makes sense is if you measure J.I against the rest of the world. But when arguing who is the best it can't be "everyone else" it has to be someone. Jakob has been at the podium at three of the four last global championships, only one runner can say the same. So how come running in championships is a unique liability with Jakob? Isn't it more that in the 1500 almost every champion loses to someone next time around?
I look at it as measuring an athlete's global championship performances against their world standing. The perception of a silver or bronze medal varies greatly based on an athlete's standing in the world. Nordas winning bronze in 2023 was fantastic for him because most people wouldn't have considered him the third best 1500m runner in the world going into those championships. At the end of the year, he was only 10th on the world's fastest times list. In contrast, if Jakob wins bronze in Tokyo this year, that would probably be seen by most people as a disappointment because of his world standing.
Compare how the current Fantastic Four have fared the last four years in global championship finals relative to their standing on the world's fastest times list.
Ingebrigtsen
2021: #2 time, #1 in the Olympics
2022: #1 time, #2 in the World Championships
2023: #1 time, #2 in the WC
2024: #1 time, #4 in the Olympics
Kerr
2021: #4 time, #3 in the Olympics
2022: #9 time, #5 in the WC
2023: #8 time, #1 in the WC
2024: #3 time, #2 in the Olympics
Hocker
2021: #11 time, #6 in the Olympics
2022: #40 time, N/A in the WC
2023: #15 time, #7 in the WC
2024: #2 time, #1 in the Olympics
Nuguse:
2021: #55 time, injured in the Olympics
2022: #18 time, N/A in the WC
2023: #3 time, #5 in the WC
2024: #4 time, #3 in the Olympics
Based on how they've performed in outdoor global championship 1500m races in comparison to their respective world standings, it's fair to say that Kerr and Hocker are the best 1500m global championship racers of the four. Or, perhaps: their strengths are more suited to global championship 1500m racing.
You guys are arguing separate things. That poster is weighing Jakob's claim to be the best in the world and validating that with gold medals. You are talking about being the best in the world and validating that with consistency and a full resume. In that regard, yes Jakob is the best. He achieves the best fitness, wins the most races, and tacks on the most accomplishments and records. But most track fans measure the success of a season with the global championship performance first. If he doesn't win there, he is not the best on the most important stage. While he might still be the annual no. 1, he will be remembered differently if his number of gold medals stays at 1 OR any of his contemporaries gets to 2.
No I am talking about having championship medals. Which current 1500m runner have more championship medals? Cole Hocker got a sixt, a seventh, then a gold. Nuguse got a fifth and a bronze, Kerr (strongest competitor) did get a bronze, fifth, gold and silver.
Does a sixt, seventh and gold scream championship runner over a gold, silver, silver, fourth?
I dont understand the * people put on J.I championship record. The only way it makes sense is if you measure J.I against the rest of the world. But when arguing who is the best it can't be "everyone else" it has to be someone. Jakob has been at the podium at three of the four last global championships, only one runner can say the same. So how come running in championships is a unique liability with Jakob? Isn't it more that in the 1500 almost every champion loses to someone next time around?
Yes, Its something else to run in a championship final than to run a regular meet. But this is something that is only said about Jakob, which is weird since he is among the best/the best at championship finals as well.
Don’t even bother, these guys will make millions of excuses for their american runners. We know who fronts up and leads every race every time.
No I am talking about having championship medals. Which current 1500m runner have more championship medals? Cole Hocker got a sixt, a seventh, then a gold. Nuguse got a fifth and a bronze, Kerr (strongest competitor) did get a bronze, fifth, gold and silver.
Does a sixt, seventh and gold scream championship runner over a gold, silver, silver, fourth?
I dont understand the * people put on J.I championship record. The only way it makes sense is if you measure J.I against the rest of the world. But when arguing who is the best it can't be "everyone else" it has to be someone. Jakob has been at the podium at three of the four last global championships, only one runner can say the same. So how come running in championships is a unique liability with Jakob? Isn't it more that in the 1500 almost every champion loses to someone next time around?
Yes, Its something else to run in a championship final than to run a regular meet. But this is something that is only said about Jakob, which is weird since he is among the best/the best at championship finals as well.
I guess what you are missing is that right or wrong people are accounting for where these guys are in their career. I've included the other guys where it's relevant.
2019: Jakob #2 in the world, finishes 4th in Doha. Kerr (~8/6),
2021: Jakob #1/2 in the world, finishes 1st in Tokyo. Kerr (3/3), Nuguse (injury), Hocker (8/6)
2022: Jakob #1 in the world, finishes 2nd in Eugene. Kerr (~10/5), Hocker/Nuguse (injury)
2023: Jakob #1 in the world, finishes 2nd in Budapest. Kerr (2 or 3/1), Hocker (~10/7), Nuguse (2 or 3/5)
2024: Jakob #1 in the world, finishes 4th in Paris. Kerr (2/2), Nuguse (4/3), Hocker (3/1)
The last 2 years Kerr has outperformed Jakob in championships, and you could argue others are primed to do the same. There should be more reservations about Nuguse of course as last year was the first time he really got it right when it came to championship season, and he still had some tactical troubles.
I can’t really prescribe to a thinking where being 10th best in the world and finish 5th is better than being 1st in the world and finish 2nd. Even counting for where they are in their career, as its more beneficial to be a late bloomer?
Everything can happen at a championship final, yet the fact is Ingebrigtsen have been at the podium of an international championship final every year since 2018 or so. There had not been anyone as consistent in championship finals the latest years.
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.