Honestly I think the report is just the excuse to let Wetmore go. He's been there forever and is stale. The school wants a change and this is the perfect reason to go ahead with it.
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critic 100 wrote:
Why does everyone insist the new coach is distance orientated? How about someone well rounded and can coach more than two milers.I think after 20 years, you should have a multi that throws farther than 30 meters and 11 meters.I call the coaching staff (under Wetmore) lazy.
In his day, Chris Fox was quite good in the shot put.
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but also... wrote:
true bit also wrote:
a bod pod is better than a caliper test but its also not necessary which is the issue. Reducing someone down to a number is just such a high risk/low reward thing and unnecessary. You risk your runner developing a bad relationship with food or their health and the reward is what? Athletes need to have a healthy relationship with food to be able to properly fuel their bodies to get the full benefits of their workouts and training. All a number does is make them want to lower that number regardless of whether its actually an issue holding them back or not.
It’s just a data point. People act like getting on a scale or measuring body composition is an implicit judgement or an act of aggression. The truth is that’s a projection stemming from self-esteem issues already existing in the athlete. If the athlete isn’t mentally stable enough to rationally evaluate and utilize information that directly impacts performance, they aren’t up to the job of elite-level competition.
Right because 18-22 year olds (male or female) are emotionally mature and capable of rational and analytical decision making without overthinking everything. Understanding nuisance and whatnot.
People mentioning RWTB. The way he spoke to his runners about weight 25 years ago would completely destabilize a Gen Zer.174 -
aodjxkaso wrote:
RossiCheated wrote:
There are already posts saying that he did nothing wrong (regarding the body composition testing) and that high-level distance running success depends on having a low body fat, and posts saying that it probably went well beyond that (how did he influence athletes to be thin?).
The report is public and can be accessed here, so people can actually read it and not speculate. (I admit I have not read it, so I choose not to speculate.)
Having read the report Heather comes off horribly. Mark not as bad but still abd.
There are no names in the document. Which witness is she?
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coach ewe wrote:
it's a sad day when a professor loses his job because he insisted on telling his students the truth
any coach they hire is going to have to get behind lying to their athletes about one of the most important aspects of the sport
mind you, the athletes in question will be legal adults, that apparently are not yet ready for reality
under the current ethos dominating CU and so many universities across the nation, the Buffs best days are behind them
Is there no room for a knowledgeable, competent coach to gather and utilize this information in a responsible way? In our effort to protect those who are susceptible to issues and to prevent coaching abuse, we have denied the athletes who can benefit from this data access to it. Seems a shame to limit excellence by making any (even informed, scientific, responsible) discussion of weight and body composition a 3rd rail that will jeopardize a coach’s livelihood.
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What’s a normal PCT for stress reactions/fractures for D1 distance runners? Were the stress reactions diagnosed by a physician or self reported by the athlete? But in general stress reactions seem common to me.
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GregOdenJoggs wrote:
SlowFatMaster wrote:
OK, suppose you are coaching a promising female distance runner. Her times are very good. Her body fat % is measured at over 19%. What would you suggest that this runner change, if anything?
The scenario doesn’t give much nuance, which is key when working at the margins.
I want to know where that fat is. Is it centered around her heart and organs? If so, I think she may be restricting and then binging again r may have not increased energy intake to match current training. It would be worth while to get an HbgA1c and lipid panel done on this athlete, which could help rule out some form of anorexia. I’d work with the athletic RD to monitor her intake, make sure she has high energy turnover and is meeting her needs. Once we had food squared away, I would then start this athlete on a more regimented strength training program in order to give the athlete more space to store glycogen and more space to oxidize fats for energy. Hills, weights, pool work etc.
Perhaps this athlete is pushing too hard in easier workouts, building up lactic acid and not oxidizing fat as much. In that case, I would hold her back on longer runs with slower groups. Back to food, perhaps she is not ingesting enough fat. Review the food logs with RD.
19% is not crazy high for regular women. So maybe do nothing if things are rolling. It’s impossible to give a good answer without assessing the entire athlete, so more details will get better answers.
That’s a lot of data and analysis and lifestyle hacking even for a professional with nothing else in life but focusing on performance. Whatever to a sound MIND in a sound BODY? Going to extremes to squeeze out all the juice isn’t sound.
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Mike Smith's job if he wants it. Other names that would be great hires: Gibby, Quintana, Cole, Rowe, Weese
Wildcard: Rob Conner (seems content, but this would be a home run hire)
I don't see Diljeet interested because it is probably a pay cut. Sudbury would be good but I believe he just signed a 7 year deal. Senakiewich could be a good hire but probably a pay cut. Does Ritz really want to deal with recruiting, NIL, transfer bs? Don't see him interested. Braman? Vig?
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18 years is not grown up wrote:
GregOdenJoggs wrote:
The scenario doesn’t give much nuance, which is key when working at the margins.
I want to know where that fat is. Is it centered around her heart and organs? If so, I think she may be restricting and then binging again r may have not increased energy intake to match current training. It would be worth while to get an HbgA1c and lipid panel done on this athlete, which could help rule out some form of anorexia. I’d work with the athletic RD to monitor her intake, make sure she has high energy turnover and is meeting her needs. Once we had food squared away, I would then start this athlete on a more regimented strength training program in order to give the athlete more space to store glycogen and more space to oxidize fats for energy. Hills, weights, pool work etc.
Perhaps this athlete is pushing too hard in easier workouts, building up lactic acid and not oxidizing fat as much. In that case, I would hold her back on longer runs with slower groups. Back to food, perhaps she is not ingesting enough fat. Review the food logs with RD.
19% is not crazy high for regular women. So maybe do nothing if things are rolling. It’s impossible to give a good answer without assessing the entire athlete, so more details will get better answers.
That’s a lot of data and analysis and lifestyle hacking even for a professional with nothing else in life but focusing on performance. Whatever to a sound MIND in a sound BODY? Going to extremes to squeeze out all the juice isn’t sound.
That is what this IS. No one is forcing anyone to participate in elite-level competition. If this creates an unsound situation for your mind, then don’t do it. We don’t have to ban high-level training and coaching just to cater to the least common denominator.
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Do we think a D1 football coach would ever be fired for telling his linemen they needed to put on more weight, even if it’s unhealthy to be that heavy?
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rwtb22 wrote:
Mike Smith's job if he wants it.
He's got such a great thing going where he is. Why would he want to change things up?
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Doesn't make sense to me that guys like Ritz or Smith would be ready to take on CU -- they've got things locked down and working well as is.
One name I haven't seen brought up yet in this thread is Ryan Hall. Has had very solid success coaching in the last few years, but his stable of pros is small enough that he could potentially run a D1 program and keep things balanced (a la Mike Smith). And talk about a recruiting pull!
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Your comments about CU's facilities are mostly right on, both Wetmore and Quiller told me that Colorado's facilities were a disadvantage in recruiting. Your credibility takes a small hit, however with your characterization of the indoor track. The Buff Shed, as I call it was indeed built primarily for football but the track team works out there on a regular basis, I've actually been at practices in there.
One thing you might not know is that the football field has its corners clipped to accommodate the track. I was told that when the football coach complained to Rick George about it, he was told that if he won a national championship, they'd put full corners on the football field.
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pc ridiculousness wrote:
Do we think a D1 football coach would ever be fired for telling his linemen they needed to put on more weight, even if it’s unhealthy to be that heavy?
Yes if females played football with men. The whole weightloss controversy only ever starts with women being whistleblowers. When was the last time s former male runner outed the coaching staff on strict nutrition requirements?
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coach ewe wrote:
any coach they hire is going to have to get behind lying to their athletes about one of the most important aspects of the sport
No, they won’t.
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but also... wrote:
coach ewe wrote:
it's a sad day when a professor loses his job because he insisted on telling his students the truth
any coach they hire is going to have to get behind lying to their athletes about one of the most important aspects of the sport
mind you, the athletes in question will be legal adults, that apparently are not yet ready for reality
under the current ethos dominating CU and so many universities across the nation, the Buffs best days are behind them
Is there no room for a knowledgeable, competent coach to gather and utilize this information in a responsible way? In our effort to protect those who are susceptible to issues and to prevent coaching abuse, we have denied the athletes who can benefit from this data access to it. Seems a shame to limit excellence by making any (even informed, scientific, responsible) discussion of weight and body composition a 3rd rail that will jeopardize a coach’s livelihood.
what is the benefit? Do you seriously think these athletes have reached this level without knowing their own bodies? You think particularly young women don't know if they look different to their competitors and teammates?
The last 4 womens xc titles have been won by Laurie Henes and Diljeet Taylor who are on record that they have have no interest in using body composition tests despite having them available at their universities and think they do more harm than good. If they can win without these then a coach should ask themselves why do i need to use it.
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rwtb22 wrote:
Mike Smith's job if he wants it. Other names that would be great hires: Gibby, Quintana, Cole, Rowe, Weese
Wildcard: Rob Conner (seems content, but this would be a home run hire)
I don't see Diljeet interested because it is probably a pay cut. Sudbury would be good but I believe he just signed a 7 year deal. Senakiewich could be a good hire but probably a pay cut. Does Ritz really want to deal with recruiting, NIL, transfer bs? Don't see him interested. Braman? Vig?
ACC heavy perspective but Pete Watson Boston College and Brian Bell Syracuse slot in favorably with those Roe, Quintana, Cole, Weese names.
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Sean Cleary
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