What's the reason/s that high schoolers and collegiates are running so fast in the last couple of years.

Gvjjjj wrote:

Sucks but true wrote:

Yes, I certainly believe more HS and college kids are doping now. What else has changed in the last 20-30 years besides the shoes, social media, and internet?

The answer: easier access to better PEDs and how to use them, e.g. microdosing, TUE, TRT, EPO, etc. I can get some delivered online anonymously by this weekend.

So many of you have blinders on. I guess ignorance is bliss.

This. But shoes are the biggest factor. 2010-2019 was hardly special when it came to HS and collegiate running. What changed? Shoes. Unless more are using ped since 2019. Could be, but I think shoes are just as effective. With the emergence of cheat shoes, might as well open up the flood gates and allow everything. Why not? Folks are already getting away with PEDs left and right. It’s funny, several years ago some shoe company came out with a shoe that supposedly increased jumping height. NBA immediately banned it. They weren’t even interested in testing the theory out first to see if they worked. Just the mere implication that technology could exist that gave athletes a mechanical advantage was enough for the NBA to say “no.” This is why track has now entered the realm of circus. Everyone is fast (compared with years past). Take away the shoes. Take away PED use and this generation is no more special than any other generation.

Fffffff wrote:

always a new excuse wrote:

Agreed. It’s gospel that super spikes are the primary driver of all the improvement we’re seeing, but there’s no consistent explanation for how they work. The people crying spikes after 8 men break 3:30 in Oslo are the same ones telling you that super spikes don’t work for elites, or only work at longer distances, or [insert excuse here] when you press them to explain why no one who ran 3:28 in old spikes has run 3:26. Contradictory views like this seem to represent general board sentiment because they are always highly upvoted.

Every thread griping about high school and college kids is the same. Great performances are the result of the nebulous super spike effect, cheater shoes, boing boing, etc. Some genius observes that depth has improved at the high school and collegiate levels and concludes that super spikes are the only possible explanation. That’s what passes for analysis around here.

every single person who ran a sub 3:28 from 2017-2019 broke 3:20 with the super shoes… People have forgotten how rare sub 3:29s had gotten after el g retired

Serious have you ever looked at the time lists? We had 9 people sub 3:31 in that period. And a couple of the fastest have been banned for doping. And a few were getting old. Now what does it take to make the top 9? 3:29. Yeah a few guys like Cheruiuyot didn’t get noticeably faster.

Covid and Kenyan drug test complicate the whole picture but the only other time we had drops with this type of depth was the 90s. And that was mainly just a couple countries instead of the whole world…

cvc vcvc wrote:

"They don't need access to "high-level" drugs. Any drug, obtainable off the internet, will do the job. You lost this argument long ago when it was indicated by antidoping that drugs are present in schools. Recreational drugs have long been in schools - for decades, in fact. It is utterly naive to think that performance-enhancing drugs won't be - and especially amongst incredibly ambitious athletes."

I live in the world of fact. If you have proof that anyone who ran at Arcadia is doping, then provide it. Otherwise, all you are doing is offering an opinion unsupported by reality. You are like watching a bigfoot program where they always say things like "It sounds like it is a bigfoot" or "It could be that bigfoot hides during the day." In your case, it is "This isn't saying everyone is doping, but many of the most successful MAY be." Well, yeah, they MAY be, but that does not mean they are and there is nothing anywhere for you to support that any top HS runner right now is doping. You argument seems to be, high-schoolers use recreational drugs; therefore, top HS runner are using PEDs." I understand this won't stop you, because you have staked out your position and will not move from it no matter what. But the rest of us know better- you just believe what you want. I will wait for proof, though I do not think it will ever come.

And for the rest of us living reality, consider this. Why are top Tour De France riders so good today? (Yes, some would argue doping still occurs, and it likely does but the controls are much stronger now) Even mediocre riders are riding better in some cases than some top riders from 20 years ago. Do you think developments in cycling technology have nothing to do with that fact? That shoe technology has nothing to do runners running better now that 10 years ago. Training is better, as Ineos has shown, but the technology- from shifting mechanisms to hydraulic braking systems, to lightweight shoes, aerobar changes and so on, all play a major role. I bought a new bike 4 years ago and it is already archaic.

Hello123 wrote:

As someone who coached some highly successful high school athletes 35 years ago, I think the internet itself has made a huge difference. Everyone back then was training and competing in an information vacuum. I had no idea what kinds of times people were running in other parts of my state, let alone in the country. I had to wait until I got my Track & and Field News in the mail to find out what was going on nationally, and it was at least 4-6 weeks out of date by the time I got it. All we thought about was the local competition and qualifying for the State Meet. I once drove 3 hours round-trip on a Sunday morning to get a newspaper from the city where our main rival lived, just to get the results of their Regional Meet. Nowadays, the amount of information at our fingertips is astounding. Knowledge = Power!

rojo wrote:

Fffffff wrote:

every single person who ran a sub 3:28 from 2017-2019 broke 3:20 with the super shoes… People have forgotten how rare sub 3:29s had gotten after el g retired

Serious have you ever looked at the time lists? We had 9 people sub 3:31 in that period. And a couple of the fastest have been banned for doping. And a few were getting old. Now what does it take to make the top 9? 3:29. Yeah a few guys like Cheruiuyot didn’t get noticeably faster.

Covid and Kenyan drug test complicate the whole picture but the only other time we had drops with this type of depth was the 90s. And that was mainly just a couple countries instead of the whole world…

Nailed it. Does anyone think El g was clean? Tim C's teammate was popped as well. Mo Farah trained with Salazar. Now almost everyone breaks 3:30 with no hint of doping.

rojo wrote:

Fffffff wrote:

every single person who ran a sub 3:28 from 2017-2019 broke 3:20 with the super shoes… People have forgotten how rare sub 3:29s had gotten after el g retired

Serious have you ever looked at the time lists? We had 9 people sub 3:31 in that period. And a couple of the fastest have been banned for doping. And a few were getting old. Now what does it take to make the top 9? 3:29. Yeah a few guys like Cheruiuyot didn’t get noticeably faster.

Covid and Kenyan drug test complicate the whole picture but the only other time we had drops with this type of depth was the 90s. And that was mainly just a couple countries instead of the whole world…

Nailed it. Does anyone think El g was clean? Tim C's teammate was popped as well. Mo Farah trained with Salazar. Now almost everyone breaks 3:30 with no hint of doping.