The definitions below are from a New York Times article. My takeaway is the crime of seditious conspiracy is easier to prove than insurrection, and the sentence of up to 20 years in prison for seditious conspiracy is greater than up to 10 years for insurrection. Additional criminal charges against those responsible for the attack also include assault (over 100 police officers injured), destruction of property , entering and remaining in a restricted federal building, obstructing an official government proceeding, etc.
It is a federal crime found in Section 2384 of Title 18 of the United States code. That law makes it a crime for two or more people to actively plot to overthrow by force the federal government, to levy war against it, to unlawfully seize federal property or “by force to prevent, hinder or delay the execution of any law of the United States.” A conviction carries a sentence of up to 20 years in prison.
In the Oath Keepers case, prosecutors marshaled text messages, videos and other evidence to argue that Mr. Rhodes and other militia members had agreed to take steps to block Congress from certifying Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s Electoral College victory, a crucial step in the constitutional system for the normal transfer of power. Mr. Rhodes received 18 years in prison, and one of his top deputies was sentenced to a 12-year term. Is sedition the same thing as insurrection?
While they clearly overlap, “sedition” centers more on plotting and incitement, whereas “insurrection” is generally understood to mean the actual violent acts of an uprising aimed at overthrowing the government.
That said, the federal law against insurrection, Section 2383, slightly blurs that line. It says that “whoever incites, sets on foot, assists or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto” is guilty of that offense. Its penalty is up to 10 years in prison and disqualification from holding federal office.
Insurrection charges are considered difficult to prove and are exceedingly rare. While many people have called the events of Jan. 6 an “insurrection,” the Justice Department has not charged any rioters with that crime. In addition to the handful of seditious conspiracy charges against members of two militias, the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys, prosecutors have charged various rioters with such crimes as assaulting police officers, obstructing an official congressional proceeding and trespassing.
Exactly!
This has come up repeatedly with Trumpers. Prosecutors select charges that are easy to prove. That tell a simple story for the jury. That can’t be overruled on appeal.
none of that means they aren’t guilty of other things.
This entire idiotic thread is founded on the belief that it if you aren’t charged with something you are innocent of everything.
And this thread was started by a poster that thinks the current president is guilty of everything even though he is charged with nothing.
Your quote: "his entire idiotic thread is founded on the belief that it if you aren’t charged with something you are innocent of everything."
No. I believe in the presumption of innocence. You have to be CONVICTED of something - not charged. They can charge/indict a ham sandwich.
It would come from inside of the military and the leaders wouldn’t be wearing buffalo horns.
Trump and his lawyers did not even dispute or contest that there was an insurrection at the Capitol on 1/6/21. They have admitted it. Their only factual argument regarding the insurrection was that Trump had nothing to do with it, and all the dangerous idiots who attacked the Capitol cops and busted into the Capitol building threatening various people (Pence, Pelosi, etc.) were incited by people other than Trump. Uh huh.
It is HIGHLY unlikely the Supreme Court will overturn the Colorado courts on the grounds that there was no insurrection. Again, Trump admitted there was in the face of overwhelming evidence.
PLease show me WHERE they admitted the insurrection. Show me that. I will be waiting.
Trump and his lawyers did not even dispute or contest that there was an insurrection at the Capitol on 1/6/21. They have admitted it. Their only factual argument regarding the insurrection was that Trump had nothing to do with it, and all the dangerous idiots who attacked the Capitol cops and busted into the Capitol building threatening various people (Pence, Pelosi, etc.) were incited by people other than Trump. Uh huh.
It is HIGHLY unlikely the Supreme Court will overturn the Colorado courts on the grounds that there was no insurrection. Again, Trump admitted there was in the face of overwhelming evidence.
PLease show me WHERE they admitted the insurrection. Show me that. I will be waiting.
It is irrelevant whether they admitted Jan 6 was an insurrection. The facts say it was.
PLease show me WHERE they admitted the insurrection. Show me that. I will be waiting.
It is irrelevant whether they admitted Jan 6 was an insurrection. The facts say it was.
What do you mean the facts say it was an insurrection? Whose facts? Do you know how stupid (and I don't like using that word) that sounds? "The facts." LOL. Again, whose facts? Your facts? Joe blow's facts? Maybe the DOJ's facts trump (no pun intended) your facts and Joe Blow's facts. We are a country of laws. Not feelings.
It is irrelevant whether they admitted Jan 6 was an insurrection. The facts say it was.
What do you mean the facts say it was an insurrection? Whose facts? Do you know how stupid (and I don't like using that word) that sounds? "The facts." LOL. Again, whose facts? Your facts? Joe blow's facts? Maybe the DOJ's facts trump (no pun intended) your facts and Joe Blow's facts. We are a country of laws. Not feelings.
These are the charges. Insurrection is a separate crime. He has no idea what he’s talking about.
Former President Donald Trump has been indicted by a federal grand jury on charges stemming from his efforts to remain in power after losing the 2020 election.
According to the indictment handed up Tuesday by a federal grand jury, Trump faces four charges: conspiracy to defraud the United States; conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding; obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding; and conspiracy against rights.
This post was edited 37 seconds after it was posted.
You have to be CONVICTED of something - not charged. They can charge/indict a ham sandwich.
You seem to be ignorant of the fact 561 of these criminals have been sentenced.
"Approximately 561 federal defendants have had their cases adjudicated and received sentences for their criminal activity on Jan. 6. Approximately 335 have been sentenced to periods of incarceration. Approximately 119 defendants have been sentenced to a period of home detention, including approximately 19 who also were sentenced to a period of incarceration."
You have to be CONVICTED of something - not charged. They can charge/indict a ham sandwich.
You seem to be ignorant of the fact 561 of these criminals have been sentenced.
"Approximately 561 federal defendants have had their cases adjudicated and received sentences for their criminal activity on Jan. 6. Approximately 335 have been sentenced to periods of incarceration. Approximately 119 defendants have been sentenced to a period of home detention, including approximately 19 who also were sentenced to a period of incarceration."
It's easier to prove seditious conspiracy (and the sentence is up to 20 years versus only 10 years for insurrection). Just because they aren't charged with insurrection doesn't mean insurrection didn't happen.
My personal opinion is this was an insurrection of useful idiots who were fooled into attacking the capitol on Jan. 6 by the former president. I do feel sorry for these people and the personal price they and their families have paid.
It's wonderful that Democrats use the term "insurrection." It makes them sound incredibly stupid, disingenuous, and quite frankly rather wuss like for describing what happened on January 6th as an insurrection. So since taking over the government clearly didn't work, what do Democrats think the chances were that Jan 6ers were actually going to succeed in their insurrection? Democrats cry like babies and act as though it was really going to work, which is complete nonsense.
Suppose you run over someone with a car. You might have done it deliberately, which means you could have been found guilty of murder. But if you are only charged with vehicular homicide, there will not be a legal finding in a court of law that a murder occurred. But as a factual matter, it still did occur and you still did it. Same thing with those people in the crowd (not all of the crowd) who tried to stop the congress from certifying Biden as president. Not insurrectionists as a legal matter, but still Insurrectionists as a matter of fact.
One big difference with your scenario and Jan. 6. If you intentionally ran over a person and he or she died, that IS murder. Whether you are charged with murder or not is a different matter. But those participating in the Jan. 6 protests, how can you unequivocally say they participated in an insurrection? Much more gray area. What if someone nearby saw all the commotion and just went along to see what was happening? You have to be convicted of insurrection in a court of law and none of those in the protests of Jan. 6 will ever be convicted of insurrection.
Ok, I’ll make my analogy more specific, using your logic. If you attempt to use violence to seize political power away from the government, that IS insurrection. Whether you are charged with insurrection is a different matter. The people who tried to kidnap and hang the Vice President in order to stop him from certifying Biden the new president were, as a matter of fact, insurrectionists.
Your point about whether the protesters who were not there to kidnap and/or kill the Vice President and/or members of Congress should be deemed to have “participated” in the insurrection is a valid and important one, because the fact that some people engaged in insurrection should not mean that everyone at the Capitol protesting should be considered insurrectionists. But just because most of the people in the mob were not participating in an attempted overthrow of the government it does not mean that an attempted overthrow by some of the people in the crowd did not, in fact, occur - it certainly did.
So we won’t call everything that happened at the Capitol on Jan. 6 an insurrection- just the insurrection part.
Please let me know where you reside? I want to drop by, break your stuff, defecate in your kitchen, smear that all over your walls, steal your wife's jewelry and any heirlooms that you might have, and then be a little bit violent if the mood strikes me.
Please remember that doesn't make me a criminal vandal, thief, or an assaulter. I'm just an overzealous houseguest.
For anyone skipping this far down in the thread, this is really the only post that matters ^^. The rest of it is just someone scrambling backwards over semantics for 9 pages for no reason at all.
It is irrelevant whether they admitted Jan 6 was an insurrection. The facts say it was.
What do you mean the facts say it was an insurrection? Whose facts? Do you know how stupid (and I don't like using that word) that sounds? "The facts." LOL. Again, whose facts? Your facts? Joe blow's facts? Maybe the DOJ's facts trump (no pun intended) your facts and Joe Blow's facts. We are a country of laws. Not feelings.
The facts that the House accepted when it found Trump had aided an insurrection, as well as two judges who have ruled Trump was an insurrectionist. Trump doesn't have to admit being a traitor; the facts show he was. The House and the Colorado and Illinois courts have accepted that. Hence he has been barred by them from running for office.
You seem to be ignorant of the fact 561 of these criminals have been sentenced.
"Approximately 561 federal defendants have had their cases adjudicated and received sentences for their criminal activity on Jan. 6. Approximately 335 have been sentenced to periods of incarceration. Approximately 119 defendants have been sentenced to a period of home detention, including approximately 19 who also were sentenced to a period of incarceration."
