Doesn't drafting cost you a second per lap? Does anyone know? Someone please respond. Thank you so much and have a great day!
Having been a cycling fan for a full decade before getting into running and watching the pros, I think the running world severely underestimates the impact of aerodynamics in the sport. Some here have correctly identified Jakob's excessive time up front not receiving any draft benefit, but many are dismissing this and simply saying he wasn't strong enough or didn't go hard enough on lap 2 (which I think is true but probably less significant than all the pacing he did). 's an aerodynamic study on draft effect at lower speeds in cycling, which is relevant on tough climbs. At 7m/s (3:34 in the 1500m), with a group of 6 cyclists in a line, it says the second cyclist in the line saves around 50 watts compared to the lead cyclist (10% savings on 500W using the charts they have; yes the drag coefficients are different, cyclists have a bike but they're also sitting down). Watts are a very known and precise commodity in cycling (they're everything! very scientific sport), and they don't translate well to running because there's no real way to measure them (stryd and other power meters are crap, they're just backing into a guess), but running watts are in the same ballpark at an equivalent effort.
World class cyclists can hold about 700 watts for 3.5 minutes, so let's buffer that for runners and say our 1500m finalists are holding 1000 watts for their entire race if leading and taking the wind. Saving 50 watts by staying in second position with a draft is equivalent to 5% of total power! Jakob led/took wind from 500m (arguably from 300m) to 1500m, while Kerr only took the wind for the last 2-300m. Very rough math with some grand assumptions here, but with the 1000W estimate, Jakob would've averaged 980+ watts to Kerr's 960, a 2% savings for Kerr (2% of 3:30 is 4 seconds, so 1 second per lap to answer your question , but I'm not sure the % power translates directly to % time).
Yes Kerr did stay slightly wider than Jakob for much of the race, adding a little bit of distance and increasing his drag slightly, but even being to the side, he got significant drag benefit. Again, the 1000 watt estimate is very rough, but the 50 watt savings comes from actual smart people. Is aerodynamics as important in running as in cycling? Not even close, but it has a role! Don't get me started on sprinters' clothing/hair. But there's a reason Eliud went sub-2 with a flying V of pacers (including Jakob!). Drag matters, and for the second year in a row, Jakob dragged a Scot to gold.
Do you know whether this savings was in still air or with a headwind? So, for example, is this the savings a runner would get racing indoors?
yeah the guy that ran 7:54 for 2 miles, 3:30 for 1500m indoors setting a world record and hardly EVER loses REALLY needs to work on his speed. Letsrun.com posts that diss on world-class athletes like Yakob are plebs.
yeah the guy that ran 7:54 for 2 miles, 3:30 for 1500m indoors setting a world record and hardly EVER loses REALLY needs to work on his speed. Letsrun.com posts that diss on world-class athletes like Yakob are plebs.
A 7:54 2 mile is an indicator of his unmatched aerobic capacity, not his basic speed. You act awfully smug as if you've somehow said something profound, but just embarrassed yourself.
Then Kerr is the better runner. Just as Wightman was.
Yup, Kerr was the strongest runner today, despite being slower than his Tokyo Olympics, and running on the outside of lane 1 into lane 2? on three corners. JI only ran wide on the first corner, and that was partly due to starting out in lane 7; he really didn't make any serious mistakes compared to the previous WC where he accelerated multiple times to fight off surges from the Kenyans. He just didn't have it today, you could see it in his face and body language. He knew it, and at least he did not employ the sad tactic of drifting out into lane 2 or 3 to force Kerr to run wide. Maybe he just raced a bit too much this year and as a result went past his peak. Katir ran like crap in the 15 heats and so far has bounced back for the 5, JI is only 22 and good chance he recovers for the 5 final, unless he really is overtrained.
Nordas got the most out out his talent, stealing JI's tactic of staying out of trouble at the back and running in lane 1. Nuguse was underwhelming, spending a lot of time in lane 2, even lane 3 according to Dan O'Brian's live comments. At least Hocker PBd, hard to ask for much more than that.
I don't really think this is overly complicated right? As the strongest 5000m guy in the 1500m nobody can sustain a certain pace longer than Jakob can. And that pace is right at about 55.5 for 400m. When the field is asked to run that for 3.75 laps from the gun, they simply can't and Jakob can. I mean that is the essence, beauty and curse of wavelight right now.
However the further the speed of the race deviates from that, the more guys get bought back into the equation. Last year when the 3rd lap deviated from that pace the window opened for Wightman and he smashed through it. This year when the 2nd lap deviated (and deviated considerably) it opened for Kerr and he did the same.
I think it's hard to say Jakob is simply the best 1500m runner in the world. He is the absolute best at a certain style of 1500m running, but is certainly not a complete miler per se. I think we are simply seeing that without pacemakers and perfectly set little LED lights that getting out there and hammering sub 56 second laps one after another just isn't easy - even for a great talent like J.I
yeah the guy that ran 7:54 for 2 miles, 3:30 for 1500m indoors setting a world record and hardly EVER loses REALLY needs to work on his speed. Letsrun.com posts that diss on world-class athletes like Yakob are plebs.
Yet he keeps losing world championship 1500 finals - and to guys with more speed. Maybe you haven't noticed.
Yup, Kerr was the strongest runner today, despite being slower than his Tokyo Olympics, and running on the outside of lane 1 into lane 2? on three corners. JI only ran wide on the first corner, and that was partly due to starting out in lane 7; he really didn't make any serious mistakes compared to the previous WC where he accelerated multiple times to fight off surges from the Kenyans. He just didn't have it today, you could see it in his face and body language. He knew it, and at least he did not employ the sad tactic of drifting out into lane 2 or 3 to force Kerr to run wide. Maybe he just raced a bit too much this year and as a result went past his peak. Katir ran like crap in the 15 heats and so far has bounced back for the 5, JI is only 22 and good chance he recovers for the 5 final, unless he really is overtrained.
Nordas got the most out out his talent, stealing JI's tactic of staying out of trouble at the back and running in lane 1. Nuguse was underwhelming, spending a lot of time in lane 2, even lane 3 according to Dan O'Brian's live comments. At least Hocker PBd, hard to ask for much more than that.
I don't really think this is overly complicated right? As the strongest 5000m guy in the 1500m nobody can sustain a certain pace longer than Jakob can. And that pace is right at about 55.5 for 400m. When the field is asked to run that for 3.75 laps from the gun, they simply can't and Jakob can. I mean that is the essence, beauty and curse of wavelight right now.
However the further the speed of the race deviates from that, the more guys get bought back into the equation. Last year when the 3rd lap deviated from that pace the window opened for Wightman and he smashed through it. This year when the 2nd lap deviated (and deviated considerably) it opened for Kerr and he did the same.
I think it's hard to say Jakob is simply the best 1500m runner in the world. He is the absolute best at a certain style of 1500m running, but is certainly not a complete miler per se. I think we are simply seeing that without pacemakers and perfectly set little LED lights that getting out there and hammering sub 56 second laps one after another just isn't easy - even for a great talent like J.I
I agree. He has extraordinary aerobic talent but isn't the best all-round 1500 runner. He can't always win with races run differently. The best could.
If he was sick it makes more sense that he allowed that type of race. I thought it might have been the heat.
There's no way Jakob is going to allow a barely sub 3:30 race when he otherwise had no excuses regarding traffic problems or somebody applying a bizarre tactic with no regard for themselves.
racing 3:27.14 under ideal conditions and pacing isn't the same as dropping 3:27-3:29 in Championship style race + insane heat. His confidence got to him.
To be fair He was really only a favorite to medal not a shoo in to win or anything. He barely got the silver and should be proud. Another 5ft and he was bronze.
IF (and I cannot know this) he wasn't sick I'd seriously consider to make the 5000 the main focus for the Olympics if I were JI.
Kerr closed a 3:29.3 race with a 53.5 last 400. Many others were very close. Even if JI was healthy I am not sure if a 3:27 runner who is more an endurance type can match this after 2 rounds. 53.5 close at that pace is insane, others seem to be very good kickers, too.
I still think JI has WR potential in the 5k and in that event HE might be the person with the best kick.
He was not at his best. When he could run low 3:27 in Silesia with some separation from the pacemakers he should be able to run at least 3:28 in a race where he is front running most of the way. And if he had had the same speed in the last 100-150m as in the previous races this year it would possibly have been enough to hold Kerr off.
Whether it was illness or a bad day doesn´t matter. To underperform is just part of the game. Just ask Tim, Mechaal, Katir, Nuguse, Habz, Mario Garcia who all were some time away from their SBs.
So the talk of bad tactics or the lack of ability to win championship races are probably wrong.
He just had a bad day as in the indoor WC 1500m where he was beat by Tefera (when it later came up that he had Covid).
Well said. When the field is deep, it's difficult to take a win even if you are the most probable winner. Somebody of the seven sub 3:30 guys are going to have a great day. Jakob needed to combine sub 2:28 shape and good tactics to win. This day the shape was lacking.
In 2022 he consumed too much energy fighting off multiple surges (=bad execution). This year the race execution was good but the shape wasn't there.
To be fair He was really only a favorite to medal not a shoo in to win or anything. He barely got the silver and should be proud. Another 5ft and he was bronze.
Yes. If your best time in the season is only 1.8 seconds better than the next best and you are more like an endurance than sprint based athlete, the competitors have a good chance to beat you. As a comparison in Women's side Kipyegon's time is 5 seconds faster than the next best time. That is such a big buffer that it is very improbable for others to win.
Too many trolls here. Nothing much to analyze: Jakob was not 100% due to illness, and consequently not good enough to win a race where Kerr stepped up like he did. Everyone could see that he was affected, and Jakob is probably the least likely of any runner to come up with such an excuse if it wasn't true, demonstrated by his interviews after last year's loss.
Had Jakob been 100% healthy, he would almost certainly have won, but with smaller margin than earlier this season having to pace for 1000m himself.
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