Do states like CT even have enough FL qualifiers (or like top 20 at NXN)? I have a feeling that is going to be true for most of the bottom 25 states. My first glance is only Utah and Oregon are coming close.
At the other end who is the worst state with 10m people? Would CT beat say Georgia or NC?
If Idaho has well more than 5 FL or NXN qualifiers, I would imagine many other bottom 25 states probably do as well.
In just the last few years Idaho has at least Green, Moss, Erickson, Russell, Athay, and Heemeyer. Of those probably only Green is a top 5 for the state, at least so far.
Its interesting at first glance, because I figured: How could any state even come close to competing with the NY girls. But the reality is that it's just two powerhouse programs in NY that consistently produce top 3 in the nation teams. (Insane statement if you really think about it, but true). When it comes to individuals (although 2 of those girls are from Saratoga) CA does make it very very interesting. Its incredibly close although I would take NY on any course that isn't mostly flat.
As a side note: While looking at this, I was looking up times and surprised to see Cain wasn't a stand out XC runner. Granted she came in second at nxn it was in 19:21 and her Bowdin times aren't even close to cuffe or tuohy. With her track times, i figured she would have won multiple xc championships.
Enjoyed this discussion. On Cain in grades 8-10 she had already found some speed at 400, 800 and mile, but was just good at xc. Still her last times at Bowdoin from only her soph year put her at #6 on the ny all time list. After moving to Nike, she skipped the ny xc series in grades 11 and 12..
Although she was best known as a miler, her limited distance performances still put her in the all time discussion. 2nd at NXN as Jr (skipped sr NXN), 15:45 track 5k still #4 all time, 8:58 3000m #1 all-time. In hindsight I would have had her on my NYxc team. 2nd NXN equals Chmiel and actually a better result than Blood and Huddle.
NY national champs: Curtin FL, Davis FL, Ryan FL, Cuffe FL, Touhy NXN, Baloga FL
NY runner ups: Cain NXN, Chmiel NXN
NY very goods: Huddle, Rhines, Blood, Lipari, Rauber
To your point, there is no one from FM on this list or from the recent 3xnat'l champ toga team. An F-M all star team would be hon mention to the above group. Walters, Neal, Fanning, Sullivan, Chapman.
I'd line up with this squad. Touhy, Cuffe, Baloga, Chmiel, Cain, Huddle, Blood
Very solid points, I dont know too much of the individual times to make case. If Cain really focused on xc/5k in general, she probably could have been one of the best NY/the nation has seen.
To what you are saying, its almost more impressive how dominant FM has been. They dont even have 1 in a "top tier" list, where all girls mentioned are from the "FM Era" (2004-) yet they are still the most winning program in the country and its not even kind of close. The depth that program creates year after year is actually unbelievable. AND its not even one of the NY mega schools with 4000+ kids. Its just a normal HS with roughly 1500. So impressive. I'm surprised a D1 college hasn't tried to swoop the coach away.
Old Course at Mississippi college was one of the best in the south or nation , I have seen several other state courses and MississippiS blow them away the New Course is 15 to 30 sec faster nothing more than a track
Poor decision by someone to change are state meet course
Michigan could potentially get a really high spot here.
You have the (former?) HS Cross-Country GOAT in Dathan Ritzenhein,
Arguably a top-10 HS track distance runner all time in Hobbs Kessler. It would be hard to burn him off the lead group and he'd certainly be able to pass some bodies in the last sections of the race.
You also have a bonafide stud with Grant Fisher, who as a professional, is making a case to be in the conversation for greatest American distance runner of all time. Not to mention him winning XC States, going sub-4 relatively early into the craze, etc.
And to round out (my) top 5 scorers, you have new-age studs in Riley Hough and Hunter Jones. Established winners at the state level, and extremely competitive against other all time greats at the national level.
3 super low sticks and 2 guys who know how to race? That's a killer team right there.
(IMO, they still wouldn't beat California, but hey who's counting)
Do states like CT even have enough FL qualifiers (or like top 20 at NXN)? I have a feeling that is going to be true for most of the bottom 25 states. My first glance is only Utah and Oregon are coming close.
At the other end who is the worst state with 10m people? Would CT beat say Georgia or NC?
If Idaho has well more than 5 FL or NXN qualifiers, I would imagine many other bottom 25 states probably do as well.
In just the last few years Idaho has at least Green, Moss, Erickson, Russell, Athay, and Heemeyer. Of those probably only Green is a top 5 for the state, at least so far.
I count at least 13 guys since 2007- Farnsworth, Helbling, Watson, Farnsworth, Armstrong, Rigby, Green, Moss, Erickson, Russell, Athay, Heemeyer, and Rafla got 3rd at 2013 NXR, but I don't see that he raced at NXN. I might be missing someone in there.
New Hampshire had Matt Downin and John Mortimer finish 1-2 at Footlocker one year. Who else from NH?
I think John & Matt would be joined by Aidan Cox & Eric Jenkins.
#5....Francis Hernandez? Russell Brown? someone obvious I'm missing?
Mortimer, Downin, Thorne, and Cox would be a pretty easy top 4 for me, after that it gets tougher. Moskowitz, O'Brien, LaCoste, Majak would be my top candidates for a 5th, and i would probably go Moskowitz for his track times (8:44 4:09). Jenkins is more notable for what he did after HS.
For girls XC, I'd start with Schiro, Gaughan, Griffin, Robitaille, Doody. I dont know all that much about pre 2000 for the state.
Do states like CT even have enough FL qualifiers (or like top 20 at NXN)? I have a feeling that is going to be true for most of the bottom 25 states. My first glance is only Utah and Oregon are coming close.
At the other end who is the worst state with 10m people? Would CT beat say Georgia or NC?
If Idaho has well more than 5 FL or NXN qualifiers, I would imagine many other bottom 25 states probably do as well.
In just the last few years Idaho has at least Green, Moss, Erickson, Russell, Athay, and Heemeyer. Of those probably only Green is a top 5 for the state, at least so far.
Feel free to post the lists for Alaska, Wyoming, vt, nd, sd. Hawaii, Ri, montana. Maybe I don't follow the back of the pack enough.
indiana has a solid 4, they wouldn't win but they're tuff
Futsum
Kole Mathison
Cole Hocker
Rudy Chapa
Indiana is maybe the best state per capita besides Michigan or Idaho/Alaska. Don't forget Mike Fout who won FL in 07. The region is carrying its weight in the state
how tf is he no.7 he had a perfect state season in cross.. should be no.3 all time in cross no.2 all time indoor.. and outdoor top 7 if anything, 8:48 bubble conversion has to be 8:40.. also progressed so much in 2 years now running 13:28, 7:43 and 3:56
Jakub Zivec (2nd at NXN in 2008) Noah Breker (7th at NXN 2022 / 2nd at Footlocker nationals 2022) Jaret Carpenter (4th at NXN in 2015) Connor Olson (6th at NXN 2012) Obsa Ali (10th at NXN in 2012 & 2013) Khalid Hussein (10th at NXN 2017) Sam Scott (12th at NXN 2023) Robert Mechura (20th at NXN 2023)
how tf is he no.7 he had a perfect state season in cross.. should be no.3 all time in cross no.2 all time indoor.. and outdoor top 7 if anything, 8:48 bubble conversion has to be 8:40.. also progressed so much in 2 years now running 13:28, 7:43 and 3:56