Official Democrats keep control of the US Senate

Running buddies - since running website wrote:

I have not read whole thread or the MB much recently so I’ll pick on your comment, but I’m sure can apply to many on both sides.
As a ‘former’ runner I still get out there 3/4 times a week and 1/2 times a week at busy times, mostly with the same guy at work. We rarely talk about politics but especially around election time and when significant matters are in the news we do. He’s what I’d call libertarian on the right and I’d call myself center left. What I think is interesting is we debate points, and I think we both see the others point of view, and can understand where they are coming from, but obviously neither of us has changed the others mind. Or not yet. I would contrast this to a group chat about 5 of us from a running team had which was generally quiet most of the year apart from a flurry of activity around NC’s - both xc and track and then when Olympics etc are on. That chat has existed for about 13/14 years with the same 5 folks. About 2/3 years ago one of the participants started talking politics all the time and was very hardline on one side. 2 folks left the chat very quickly, and the entire thing disbanded about 3 months ago and I’m sure no one will pick it up again next week for NC’s.
I guess I say this because of your comment about thinking that folks who have a different opinion than you are so dumb. Have you tried to see the other side, or at least put yourselves in shoes of others? My concern is I think there is probably 40% on each side who are almost hardliners which mean presidency, house and senate will flip, but no one ever going to have a working majority where can actually get things done. I guess I’ll just start by seeing if we can change things here - but shouldn’t we refrain from ad hominem attacks at try and debate policy rather think other side is just ‘dumb’. When - obviously smart people voting both ways for various reasons.
Have a good one!

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

george c wrote:

You are all over the place. ACA is reason for health care rising, now it is not. Do you not think privatization of health care does not drive costs, need, etc.?

What "crazy" things have been promoted? Working wages? Affordable health care? Increased veteran benefits? These and many others for regular people have been voted down by the GOP. But they did give a $trillion+ tax break to the richest 1%. Now which is crazy? What is the disastrous policy?

And what is the current GOP policy? What have they done for you?

I have not always voted Dem in my lifetime, but in the current climate there really is no choice.

I didn't say a word about ACA until you brought it up. Medicare was passed in the 60s by Democrats long before ACA came along. Both are Democrat entitlements.
The cost of healthcare has gone up about 1000% since the 1960's.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/causes-of-rising-healthcare-costs-4064878
"A study in Health Affairs co-authored by Princeton University health economist Uwe Reinhardt found that Americans use the same amount of healthcare as residents of other nations. They just pay more for them.
For example, U.S. hospital prices are 60% higher than those in other countries. Government efforts to reform healthcare and cut costs raised them instead."

Tax cuts disproportionately benefit the rich because the rich pay a wildly disproportionate share of the taxes. Why is this so confusing for you??
50% of Americans pay ZERO income tax. ZERO. You cannot get a tax cut if you don't pay any taxes.
Virtually NOTHING the Democrats do works. In most cases it actually makes the problem worse.
Throwing other people's money at symptoms of problems has never solved a problem in the history of the world.

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

george c wrote:

The lion's share was given to the richest 1% in 2017 while raised on the middle class to recoup some. Oh, and PPP "loans" were forgiven with GOP backers (Kushner, DeVos, Prince,...) pushed to the front of the line.

What has the GOP done for average people? What is their platform going forward?

You're delusional. 60% of that was stolen from the 50% of Americans who actually pay taxes and given to the 50% who don't.

What have Democrats done for average people in the last 50 years? They destroyed the American family by incentivizing broken homes. They endlessly promote class and racial division. They waste money on the dumbest things imaginable. The unions destroyed American manufacturing.

The GoP promotes people keeping more of their own money. The GoP promotes strong family values and personal accountability. Secure borders. Stopping the endless wars. Giving parents power over their children's education rather than the state. School choice. Election integrity. Supporting police rather than criminals. The GoP believes in equality of opportunity rather than government mandated equality of outcome.

Democrats are on the wrong side of every issue. Even the issue that "feel good" they end up causing more harm than good.

george c wrote:

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

I didn't say a word about ACA until you brought it up. Medicare was passed in the 60s by Democrats long before ACA came along. Both are Democrat entitlements.
The cost of healthcare has gone up about 1000% since the 1960's.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/causes-of-rising-healthcare-costs-4064878
"A study in Health Affairs co-authored by Princeton University health economist Uwe Reinhardt found that Americans use the same amount of healthcare as residents of other nations. They just pay more for them.
For example, U.S. hospital prices are 60% higher than those in other countries. Government efforts to reform healthcare and cut costs raised them instead."

Tax cuts disproportionately benefit the rich because the rich pay a wildly disproportionate share of the taxes. Why is this so confusing for you??
50% of Americans pay ZERO income tax. ZERO. You cannot get a tax cut if you don't pay any taxes.
Virtually NOTHING the Democrats do works. In most cases it actually makes the problem worse.
Throwing other people's money at symptoms of problems has never solved a problem in the history of the world.

You do not seem very versed on this topic. You are reciting GOP narratives that are simply not true. As Trump said in his book "I am a life long democrat but if I ever run for office it will be as a republican. You can lie and those people will believe anything."

I believe that you start with an R after your name and work backward to justify anything and everything they do while vilifying anything and everything the D do.

I am not a big fan of two party politics but anyone who cannot look at the current division and see one party is much more for average people while the other is for...........well no one is really sure. At some point educated people understand and admit they have been following the wrong horse.

What does the current GOP stand for? What have they done for you?

Hayduke wrote:

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

You're delusional. 60% of that was stolen from the 50% of Americans who actually pay taxes and given to the 50% who don't.

What have Democrats done for average people in the last 50 years? They destroyed the American family by incentivizing broken homes. They endlessly promote class and racial division. They waste money on the dumbest things imaginable. The unions destroyed American manufacturing.

The GoP promotes people keeping more of their own money. The GoP promotes strong family values and personal accountability. Secure borders. Stopping the endless wars. Giving parents power over their children's education rather than the state. School choice. Election integrity. Supporting police rather than criminals. The GoP believes in equality of opportunity rather than government mandated equality of outcome.

Democrats are on the wrong side of every issue. Even the issue that "feel good" they end up causing more harm than good.

There hasn’t been a strong union presence in 30 years yet companies are still leaving. Gop play the cup game with money”hey why pay more than 10% taxes on your $15/hr job with no bennies. Dems say pay 30% taxes on your $50/hr union protected job with full benefits

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

george c wrote:

You do not seem very versed on this topic. You are reciting GOP narratives that are simply not true. As Trump said in his book "I am a life long democrat but if I ever run for office it will be as a republican. You can lie and those people will believe anything."

I believe that you start with an R after your name and work backward to justify anything and everything they do while vilifying anything and everything the D do.

I am not a big fan of two party politics but anyone who cannot look at the current division and see one party is much more for average people while the other is for...........well no one is really sure. At some point educated people understand and admit they have been following the wrong horse.

What does the current GOP stand for? What have they done for you?

I'm not a republican and I've never claimed to be.

The Democrats endlessly push racial division and class division.

This alone is reason enough to to support them.

The GoP promotes people keeping more of their own money. The Democrats promote punishing the rich.

The GoP promotes strong family values and personal accountability. The Democrats incentivize broken homes obsess over victim worship.

The GoP wants secure borders. The Democrats want open border.

The GoP wants to stop the endless wars. The Democrats have now absorbed the neo-cons who fled the GoP post Trump and are now the pro-war party.

The GoP supports giving parents power over their children's education rather than the state and school choice. Democrats think the government knows what best for your kids better than you do.

The GoP wants election integrity. The Democrats oppose any measure that will make it more difficult to cheat including voter ID.

The GoP supports law enforcement. The Democrats started the defund the police movement and have cause crime to spike all over the country.

The GoP believes in equality of opportunity. The Democrats believe in government mandated equality of outcome.

I wouldn't vote for a Democrat at this point if you put a gun to my head.

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

george c wrote:

You do not seem very versed on this topic. You are reciting GOP narratives that are simply not true. As Trump said in his book "I am a life long democrat but if I ever run for office it will be as a republican. You can lie and those people will believe anything."

I believe that you start with an R after your name and work backward to justify anything and everything they do while vilifying anything and everything the D do.

I am not a big fan of two party politics but anyone who cannot look at the current division and see one party is much more for average people while the other is for...........well no one is really sure. At some point educated people understand and admit they have been following the wrong horse.

What does the current GOP stand for? What have they done for you?

I'm not a republican and I've never claimed to be.

The Democrats endlessly push racial division and class division.

This alone is reason enough to to support them.

The GoP promotes people keeping more of their own money. The Democrats promote punishing the rich.

The GoP promotes strong family values and personal accountability. The Democrats incentivize broken homes obsess over victim worship.

The GoP wants secure borders. The Democrats want open border.

The GoP wants to stop the endless wars. The Democrats have now absorbed the neo-cons who fled the GoP post Trump and are now the pro-war party.

The GoP supports giving parents power over their children's education rather than the state and school choice. Democrats think the government knows what best for your kids better than you do.

The GoP wants election integrity. The Democrats oppose any measure that will make it more difficult to cheat including voter ID.

The GoP supports law enforcement. The Democrats started the defund the police movement and have cause crime to spike all over the country.

The GoP believes in equality of opportunity. The Democrats believe in government mandated equality of outcome.

I wouldn't vote for a Democrat at this point if you put a gun to my head.

CopperRunner wrote:

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

I'm not a republican and I've never claimed to be.

The Democrats endlessly push racial division and class division.

This alone is reason enough to to support them.

The GoP promotes people keeping more of their own money. The Democrats promote punishing the rich.

The GoP promotes strong family values and personal accountability. The Democrats incentivize broken homes obsess over victim worship.

The GoP wants secure borders. The Democrats want open border.

The GoP wants to stop the endless wars. The Democrats have now absorbed the neo-cons who fled the GoP post Trump and are now the pro-war party.

The GoP supports giving parents power over their children's education rather than the state and school choice. Democrats think the government knows what best for your kids better than you do.

The GoP wants election integrity. The Democrats oppose any measure that will make it more difficult to cheat including voter ID.

The GoP supports law enforcement. The Democrats started the defund the police movement and have cause crime to spike all over the country.

The GoP believes in equality of opportunity. The Democrats believe in government mandated equality of outcome.

I wouldn't vote for a Democrat at this point if you put a gun to my head.

democrat leadership have brought us and kept us into conflict we shouldn’t be in, BUT, republicans throw a fit whether the US withdraws from war or engages.

CopperRunner wrote:

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:

I'm not a republican and I've never claimed to be.

The Democrats endlessly push racial division and class division.

This alone is reason enough to to support them.

The GoP promotes people keeping more of their own money. The Democrats promote punishing the rich.

The GoP promotes strong family values and personal accountability. The Democrats incentivize broken homes obsess over victim worship.

The GoP wants secure borders. The Democrats want open border.

The GoP wants to stop the endless wars. The Democrats have now absorbed the neo-cons who fled the GoP post Trump and are now the pro-war party.

The GoP supports giving parents power over their children's education rather than the state and school choice. Democrats think the government knows what best for your kids better than you do.

The GoP wants election integrity. The Democrats oppose any measure that will make it more difficult to cheat including voter ID.

The GoP supports law enforcement. The Democrats started the defund the police movement and have cause crime to spike all over the country.

The GoP believes in equality of opportunity. The Democrats believe in government mandated equality of outcome.

I wouldn't vote for a Democrat at this point if you put a gun to my head.

One of those “I’m an independent/moderate” types when you literally vote straight ticket Republican and post some pretty dang far right ideas lol. I’ll bite on your points tho.

Democrats don’t push for race division, very much not so. I’d argue that the policy democrats make trying to create equality and equity go too far. The only ones pushing problematic racial ideation are the radicalized ones, and that’s a small minority. We don’t want to play the game of what radicalized left/right wingers want, I promise that’s not an argument you win.

Democrats want the rich to pay their share. GOP legislation allows the richest to pay no taxes or even gain money from the government at the end of every year, while the middle and lower class is taxed heavily.

What are strong family values? Should America, land of the free and the place where you supposedly live the life you want to live be enforcing people to live our cookie cutter NPC Christian lifestyles?

I agree on this point, democrat leadership have brought us and kept us into conflict we shouldn’t be in, BUT, republicans throw a fit whether the US withdraws from war or engages.

Many religious right wingers put their kids in private schools that don’t teach the kids basic history and science because it goes against their religious beliefs. You should have the right to do that I agree, but it’s messed up and raising half a generation of ignorant kids that don’t believe in established history or science.

This just isn’t true. More fraud was found in favor of trump than for Biden when investigations were done BY REPUBLICAN investigators.

Correlation doesn’t equal causation. Police not being able to have tanks and RPGs doesn’t make people want to be criminals. Crime rates rising is almost always a product of poverty, which is a direct biproduct of your beloved corporate billionaires getting away with paying workers non-living wages and raising their product prices at the same time due to uncontrolled late stage capitalism.

Is being born in a family that is completely poor, forces you to drop out of school at 16 to help contribute to the family with work verses being born in a family that feeds you, buys you a car for your 16th birthday, and pays for your college near equal opportunity to you? This has been a cycle for generations. How is that equal opportunity to you?