Hockers 6th place is more impressive than Centros gold

AP5000 wrote:

Perch wrote:

I disagree. Bannister is the one name that will transcend time. Like Chuck Yeager breaking the sound barrier and Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay being the first to summit Mt Everest, Bannister will always be remembered when people discuss great milers.

No. No one knows who Chuck Yeager is. Same for Norgay and Hillary. You know who they are, but the masses do not. I guarantee you if you ask 10 RANDOM people who each of those people are at best 1 in 10 will know. I bet less than 1 in 100 people have heard of Bannister.

If you'll notice I said "when people discuss great milers." Of course the average person doesn't know the name Bannister but the average person doesn't discuss the great milers either. Yeager will forever be remembered in the aviation world and Hillary/Norgay will forever be remembered in the mountaineering world. Likewise Bannister will forever be remembered in the running world.

missBS wrote:

A vast majority of people here are answering this question with 6 > 1 and smaller numbers in a race win, so 1 (Centro) takes it.

I’m NOT ARGUING that first is better than 6th. I’m not saying 1 is less than 6. I’m not saying I would rather be sixth than first in any given race.

What I am saying is that, under these incredibly unique set of circumstances, Hockers 6th place finish is MORE IMPRESSIVE than Centros win in 2016. My reasoning has been outlined previously, and no amount of fingers-in-ears, foot-stomping, temper-tantrum-screaming “THE POINT OF THE RACE IS TO WIN” will change my mind.

Clearly you've never won a race and you never will. Mommy and Daddy never taught you the TRUE meaning of racing and being a competitor. Everyone is a WINNER and MORE IMPRESSIVE in their own little make-believe world.

Enjoy all those participation ribbons and medals you have hanging up in your parent's basement bedroom you live in.

This is the best running related troll thread we’ve had in a while on here... Simple take yet eliciting passionate responses from both sides

10/10

Perch wrote:

AP5000 wrote:

No. No one knows who Chuck Yeager is. Same for Norgay and Hillary. You know who they are, but the masses do not. I guarantee you if you ask 10 RANDOM people who each of those people are at best 1 in 10 will know. I bet less than 1 in 100 people have heard of Bannister.

If you'll notice I said "when people discuss great milers." Of course the average person doesn't know the name Bannister but the average person doesn't discuss the great milers either. Yeager will forever be remembered in the aviation world and Hillary/Norgay will forever be remembered in the mountaineering world. Likewise Bannister will forever be remembered in the running world.

Okay, I missed that part. Specifically in the running world Bannister will most certainly be remembered.

No it isn't. End of thread.

Here's the real debate. Which 3:50 was more impressive - Hocker's mile where he got second or Centro's 1500 where he took home Olympic gold?

Let it Rupp wrote:

Here's the real debate. Which 3:50 was more impressive - Hocker's mile where he got second or Centro's 1500 where he took home Olympic gold?

Is that a trick question?

Lmao this is the best one yet. I’ve won plenty of races and do not live in my parents “basement bedroom”.

People on here get very worked up when others post things they disagree with. It’s quite entertaining.

As far as my evidence why I believe what I do, I will post more tomorrow. Good night all, and a great conversation thus far!

missBS wrote:

Hear me out……hocker runs 3:31, bests the former OR, PRs by 2 seconds after PRing by 2 seconds in the semifinal, and gets 6th in a loaded field in his FIRST world final event.

This, to me, is more impressive than the cr*p-shoot that was the 2016 final that went out in like 2:18, setting up a free for all, where the best tactician, not the best runner, won.

In 2020, the best runner won, and the best runners in the world placed where they should have, that being at the front of the pack.

This race is more impressive than Centros gold, and certainly better than the 3:49 Centro ran a couple weeks ago.

Hocker didn’t even run to win, he was not competitive by any means. He just wanted to get pulled thru for a time. Performance still impressive, I’m not a Hocker hater but trying to justify a cowardly run with a gold medalist is ludicrous

He might be the Olympic champion but he’s still an Unknown runner just like many out there that got lucky and won their only race of their lives. Many examples. Balding in the Marathon, Yuri in the 800m, the 100m champion this year I mean only their family would remember this people.

Centro is a nobody.

Been thinking about this and came to this conclusion. Running smart vs flat out fast. What is more impressive in a championship race? If you are Usain Bolt or David Rudisha then flat out speed is more impressive because it led to dominate gold medals and world records. That pretty much sums that up. Flat out speed for 5th in a final may get you a sponsor pay stub, PR and a high five but no glory or a pose on a Wheaties Box.

A tactically run race with shake n bake kick from mid pack to finish with gold is pretty damn entertaining and glorious and a Wheaties Box portrait too boot.. Not so much for a PR in a fifth place finish in a record fast race. ‘Nough said cue mike drop.

Place is what matters in championship racing. Doesn’t matter if the race is won in 3:25 or 4:25 where u finish is all that matters

For some critics, it seams as if you switched Centro and Hocker at this years Oly Games, and Centro did exactly what Hocker did in the final (6th-3:31), there would still be a lot of criticism and not much praise for Centro. I think this is how the comments would have gone.

-Centro didn’t run to win. He hung back in 11th-12th and never moved up enough to put himself in medal contention..

-Centro can’t win a non kickers race, he got lucky in 2016 bc it was a kickers race . Fast from the start and he can’t even medal. …..(But I’d say more than 50% of championship races are kicker races).

-And I doubt anyone would say this: What Centro did in 2021, finishing 6th in 3:31, was more impressive than what he did 2016 (3:50-Gold).

-Also, here’s a question. If this years Olympic 1500 went out in 2:18, who would have probably won. Hocker? And if so, would it be an asterisk win as some have said about 2016?

KiwiG wrote:

We can finally assign 2016 to the second rate dumpster where it belongs. 1500m regained credibility today.

But is it ok to throw the 2020 mens 800m in the dumpster please.

abcrunning wrote:

He might be the Olympic champion but he’s still an Unknown runner just like many out there that got lucky and won their only race of their lives. Many examples. Balding in the Marathon, Yuri in the 800m, the 100m champion this year I mean only their family would remember this people.

Centro is a nobody.

Over here those who are interested in running remembers Centrowitz very well. It was a sensation and it was not long ago. One of the great runners in 1500 history. Because he won the gold. Sure everybody and everything might fade into obscurity, but not Cole Hocker. Because most will not even register who was number 6. So to fade into obscurity he has to win a medal in the future, and than may be he can be a nobody like you call Centrowitz.

Okay....things I will concede thus far, after such a riveting debate.

1) Centro's 2016 was more impressive than I initially remembered. I didn't remember him controlling the whole race and running from the front. Thought it was more of a sit in 2nd/3rd and kick at the end. That makes his race much more impressive, in my mind.

2) The quality of the field he ran against was superb. It was not as superb (clearly, based on the race) when it comes to finishing kicks, but the PRs /time-trialing efforts of the men in the field were very impressive nonetheless.

3) His closing in 51 while holding off all runners was magnificent. There is no debate here, that was sublime.

HOWEVER..............even with all of that said, I still believe Hocker's 2020 performance was just as impressive if not more.

As I mentioned before, Hocker:

1) Is 20 years old and in his first international final. This is such a big deal, most people don't realize it. How many other runners can say that they PRd by 2+ seconds and placed sixth or better in their first international final, which happened to be, oh, I don't know, the Olympic Games!

2) Despite what some of you said, ran a beautifully tactful race. If he had gone out any faster, he would have died and not finished anywhere near he did. He was quite literally running as fast as he could at the beginning. Great tactics don't 100% of the time mean you go straight to the front and stay there. He made (the correct) gametime decision to say, "this pace is really fast, if I want to finish near the top, I need to stay back and let runners come back to me." That's exactly what he did and it worked like a charm.

3) He had just finished a FULL NCAA indoor and outdoor season. I would love to know how many runners (1,500 and up) have EVER run a full indoor and outdoor season and placed 6th or better in the Olympics, much less as a 20 year old.

I grow weary of defending the same points, only to be told I have provided no evidence. This is all the evidence one needs, and if you don't agree, I'm sorry you love Centro so much you are blinded by your adoration.

PS, it wouldn't let me post as my original name, missBS, because I'm on another computer.

Enough already . When will you people stop?

Your evidence sucks!!!

1) His age, 20, isn't a strong talking point, when the guy that won the race is also 20!!

2) Beautifully tactical races don't result in 6th place finishes!!!

3) His race schedule isn't as grueling as you think it is. Many of those races are nothing more than hard workouts for a runner of his caliber. The other runners in the final all probably have a comparable number of hard runs in their legs!!!

The points that you grow weary of defending are dumb. That's why it's so tough to defend them. Sorry nobody else has the same crush on Hocker that you do. Get over it man. He ran a good race, but it is in not in the same league as an Olympic gold medal...any Olympic gold medal...All of them are superior performances.

Do you understand there is an inverse relationship between early pace and having a strong finish? Hocker had no chance of winning a medal so his choices were to go for a top 6 finish or to crater doing the last lap and maybe finish in last place. Only an idiot would choose the latter strategy.