Athing Mu 𝟭:𝟱𝟳.𝟳𝟯 - Crushes Collegiate Record!!!

Yeah, but I never like to predict something like that.

The run of global champs from 21-25 will be taxing, but I would expect to see lower than usual intensity in-season racing until 2026.

Coe was not fast at 18. And he was only a 47 dude form blocks. And secondly, Mu was splitting 49 indoors. I’d say she’s equivalently faster than Coe.

She might only be 2.5 - 3 seconds behind him in a 400 race.

You do realize I have 1:54 PB? There is no need to tell what I already now. My sentiment was, that if we take 400m and 1500 PBs and project a 800m time, what's the difference if you do that for a man or a woman. Are you trying to say that women are for some reason unproportionally weaker than men in 800m? If yes, what would be the reason?

Armstronglivs wrote:

think first wrote:

Why not?

Considering we take 400m AND 1500m performances into equation.

What is about 800m that makes women with great 400m speed and good 1500m stamina perform worse than men with the same attributes in the 800m?

Men and women do not have the same physiology. The differences are demonstrable in every sport. Men have greater muscle and bone density and higher aerobic capacity. Male testosterone levels are a serious magnitude greater than a woman's. A woman runner of the same height and weight as a male would typically have no chance against the male. Athing Mu is bigger than Coe. She is 1.57 to his 1.41 - utterly different universes.

prezzy wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Mu cannot be compared to Coe, who was exceptionally quick (45xx flying 400 while also a wr miler). Her speed and talent may be more comparable to Decker, who was also 23xx athlete over 200m. And how fast did Mary get over 800?

I further don't think Mu will get much faster over 400 (she's currently a 50xx runner) as those running in the 49's are much quicker than her over 200, being mostly sprinters.

Coe was not fast at 18. And he was only a 47 dude form blocks. And secondly, Mu was splitting 49 indoors. I’d say she’s equivalently faster than Coe.

She might only be 2.5 - 3 seconds behind him in a 400 race.

Now you are being ridiculous. Coe relayed 45xx over 400, and 46x from blocks, and this while not being a 400 runner - he rarely ran the event. He was over 2 seconds faster than her even over 200m.

The comparison at 18 doesn't hold because he matured later, whereas she appears physically mature already at that age - and most Africans and African Americans mature physically earlier than Caucasians. She may be more like Amos, who ran his best at 18.

But a crucial difference is that Coe had a much higher aerobic capacity than she appears to have - as he showed over the 1500/mile. Hence the differential between his 400 and 800 times will be less, as it is for most male md runners.

think first wrote:

You do realize I have 1:54 PB? There is no need to tell what I already now.

My sentiment was, that if we take 400m and 1500 PBs and project a 800m time, what's the difference if you do that for a man or a woman.

Are you trying to say that women are for some reason unproportionally weaker than men in 800m? If yes, what would be the reason?

Armstronglivs wrote:

Men and women do not have the same physiology. The differences are demonstrable in every sport. Men have greater muscle and bone density and higher aerobic capacity. Male testosterone levels are a serious magnitude greater than a woman's. A woman runner of the same height and weight as a male would typically have no chance against the male. Athing Mu is bigger than Coe. She is 1.57 to his 1.41 - utterly different universes.

I am saying that women are not comparable to men in any event, not only the 800 - and I am simply saying what is obvious, that we already know - and the reason for that is physiological differences. Bekele is 5'7". No woman will get near what he has run.

jabouko wrote:

Yeah, but I never like to predict something like that.

The run of global champs from 21-25 will be taxing, but I would expect to see lower than usual intensity in-season racing until 2026.

I dont think you need to predict it; at some point in an athlete's career, injury is a given. The issue is how serious and how often.

And I'm asking you why, because you still seem not to understand my statement. Let me give you an example: • I (male) run 400m in 52. • Female athlete XYZ runs 400m in 52. • I (male) run 1500m in 3:55. • The same female athlete XYZ runs 1500m in 3:55. • I (male) run 800m in 1:54. • Our female athlete XYZ runs 800m in _____? I say there is no reason for our female athlete XYZ not to run it in 1:54, as she has the same PBs as me in 400m and 1500m. Do you think otherwise?

Armstronglivs wrote:

I am saying that women are not comparable to men in any event, not only the 800 - and I am simply saying what is obvious, that we already know - and the reason for that is physiological differences. Bekele is 5'7". No woman will get near what he has run.

You did a nice job of simplifying it for everyone but some people will still not get it. The problem is that there probably isn't a woman who runs those times in both the 400 and 1500.

Well because these times are nothing special for male athletes and come a dime a dosen, but are absolute elite times for women and therefore extremely rare. There are still a couple of good examples: Nadezhda Olizarenko (51 / 1:53 / 3:59) Lyudmila Veselkova (52 / 1:56 / 4:03) Anita Weiß (51 / 1:56 / 4:07) Malika Akkaoui (53 / 1:57 / 4:05) I tried some calculations and came to conclusion, that in order for Mu to take an honest crack at the world record she would have to lower her 1500m PB to 4:05 WHILE at the same time keeping her 50.5 / 400m speed. Mu already has better PBs in 400m and 1500m than Natoya Goule, who has run 1:56. I am convinced that in the right race (against Wilson / Kipyegon) she could go 1:56 TODAY. Ultimate showdown of my dreams would be Semenya / Niyonsaba / Mu, but sadly mo more possible.

Nike is knocking wrote:

You did a nice job of simplifying it for everyone but some people will still not get it. The problem is that there probably isn't a woman who runs those times in both the 400 and 1500.

think first wrote:

And I'm asking you why, because you still seem not to understand my statement.

Let me give you an example:

• I (male) run 400m in 52.

• Female athlete XYZ runs 400m in 52.

• I (male) run 1500m in 3:55.

• The same female athlete XYZ runs 1500m in 3:55.

• I (male) run 800m in 1:54.

• Our female athlete XYZ runs 800m in _____?

I say there is no reason for our female athlete XYZ not to run it in 1:54, as she has the same PBs as me in 400m and 1500m.

Do you think otherwise?

Armstronglivs wrote:

I am saying that women are not comparable to men in any event, not only the 800 - and I am simply saying what is obvious, that we already know - and the reason for that is physiological differences. Bekele is 5'7". No woman will get near what he has run.

No. Tossing mathematical hypotheticals around proves nothing. Men and women are different athletes.

Armstronglivs wrote:

No. Tossing mathematical hypotheticals around proves nothing. Men and women are different athletes.

You're having a rough day huh.

Mex Tex wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

No. Tossing mathematical hypotheticals around proves nothing. Men and women are different athletes.

You're having a rough day huh.

Hardly. Not until women start running as fast as men, and then - and only then - will I have lost the argument. I think I'm safe - even on this thread.

The two namibian teen phenoms christine mboma and beatrice masilingi are just as talented as athing mu,yet few people are talking about them.Christine mboma has just run 400 in 49.22.Altitude affected,but still astonishing.

Not going to lie but you are just objectively wrong here. You are making a captain obvious statement like "men and women are different" and then failing to acknowledge that determining a likely 800 PR when given a 400 and 1500 is demonstrably similar between men and women. Why are you contesting this? You have literally been provided concrete examples of athletes. This is just stubborn cognitive dissonance at this point.

jeff tallon wrote:

The two namibian teen phenoms christine mboma and beatrice masilingi are just as talented as athing mu,yet few people are talking about them.Christine mboma has just run 400 in 49.22.Altitude affected,but still astonishing.

Well, they aren't American, are they? And this is an American site.

highhoppingworm wrote:

Not going to lie but you are just objectively wrong here. You are making a captain obvious statement like "men and women are different" and then failing to acknowledge that determining a likely 800 PR when given a 400 and 1500 is demonstrably similar between men and women. Why are you contesting this? You have literally been provided concrete examples of athletes. This is just stubborn cognitive dissonance at this point.

I haven't been given examples. I've been given hypothetical mathematical scenarios by the poster, who also uses himself as an example. He is not an elite runner. I ran as fast as him on the road in my late 20's - for fun - but I wouldn't compare myself to any elite athlete who is trained and racing to their maximum capacity.

The differences in male and female sports are essentially physiological. At the top they are simply not comparable. The only valid comparisons that may be applied to Mu are other elite women.

There are two questions: does Mu have sufficient speed to improve substantially on her 800 time - her 400 time suggests she likely does - and can she similarly increase her endurance, which is the crucial factor in the 800? We see that she isn't a natural 1500/mile runner - so the latter is where the jury is still out. I think she undoubtedly has improvement in her but not the near 5 seconds to break Jarmila's record. No one has that in them without doping.

Thats true.i remember a while back sydney mclaughlin was supposed to be the second coming,now its athing mu.Two namibian teenagers could beat them,and they rarely get a mention.

See above Armstrong.

They are amazing! However Mu has very similar speed ability and also is running 800m and 1500m which makes it even more interesting, as she is trying to morph her speed and strength into something spectacular. The namibians are simply 400m runners. If they would use their great speed to start training for 800m to try to crack the WR, then it would be more intriguing as well. Mu reminds me somewhat of younger and more perspective Saruni. Can't wait for her next race and especially to face Ajee Wilson.

jeff tallon wrote:

The two namibian teen phenoms christine mboma and beatrice masilingi are just as talented as athing mu,yet few people are talking about them.Christine mboma has just run 400 in 49.22.Altitude affected,but still astonishing.