MICHAEL NORMAN 9.86!!!! (1.6)

You want a relay team where guys will keep their medals over time. That rules out Gatlin.

blackloud wrote:

his 18.90 says wrote:

Based on Lyles' recent 18.90 (for 185m; no chance of breaking 20 if that was a 200m), Norman.

That's an interesting rebuttal. Maybe fair.

For me, I include recent history in the equation ....

No history "rebuttal" is allowed since your statement was about RIGHT now.

zxcvzxcv wrote:

You want a relay team where guys will keep their medals over time. That rules out Gatlin.

I personally think Gatlin is one the cleanest athletes in track & field.

his 18.90 says wrote:

blackloud wrote:

That's an interesting rebuttal. Maybe fair.

For me, I include recent history in the equation ....

No history "rebuttal" is allowed since your statement was about RIGHT now.

The past two years worth of results of two guys in their early 20s directly correlates to what they are capable of RIGHT now. So that was definitely part of my thinking process on the subject and inclusion of that info.

If you agree with the "two year" window, I'd grant some skepticism for that but what they did in 2019 has strong connections to what they may or may not be capable of in 2020 (right now). People often build off the success of a previous years training and result to trampoline into bigger success the following year, hence why Lyles 2019 results, at minimum, need to be part of the discussion.

blackloud wrote:

his 18.90 says wrote:

No history "rebuttal" is allowed since your statement was about RIGHT now.

The past two years worth of results...

...is not RIGHT now. Thew dictionary says: Right now

1 : RIGHT AWAY

2 : at present

It is now plain to see that you are nothing but a troll.

his 18.90 says wrote:

blackloud wrote:

The past two years worth of results...

...is not RIGHT now. Thew dictionary says: Right now

1 : RIGHT AWAY

2 : at present

It is now plain to see that you are nothing but a troll.

Sooooo...

You want to make a claim that the fact that one guy had better race results (Lyles) as recently as LAST YEAR than any result another guy has (Norman) in a year where there are NO proper track meets due to pandemic is of NO use, and cannot qualify as proper evidence, to the debate of who is the better 100m guy RIGHT now?

And, my claim that it IS of use makes ME the troll. Right. That's what you're deducing here, right?

Well then, guilty as charged. I'm a troll because I think the guy with the faster basic PR from just last year, the faster 200m PR, was the ACTUAL US Champ[s 100m winner as recently as 2018, and has a history of beating the OTHER guy over 200 meters by RUNNING DOWN the 400 guy in question is the likely the better 100 guy RIGHT NOW.

God forbid that I've thrown all logic and reason out to the wayside to make such OUTLANDISH claims. Banish me to the dustbins of history.

TrackCoach wrote:

zxcvzxcv wrote:

You want a relay team where guys will keep their medals over time. That rules out Gatlin.

I personally think Gatlin is one the cleanest athletes in track & field.

Two suspensions says otherwise. He ran 9.74 and 9.75 twice in 2015!

9 9.74 +0.9 Justin Gatlin USA 10.02.82 1 Ad-Dawhah 15.05.2015

11 9.75 +0.9 Justin Gatlin USA 10.02.82 1rA Roma 04.06.2015

11 9.75 +1.4 Justin Gatlin USA 10.02.82 1rA Lausanne 09.07.2015

exchanged wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Exchange is nothing but practice, at speed. It takes no particular talent.

Nope. The U.S. needs to learn how to do the silent, no-look-back, exchanges China and Japan excel at. U.S. teams use the silly scream method.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdjiqUmrT4o

Every world champ/olympics, our relay team gets like 3 sessions practicing handoffs. This is because our relay teams are composed of men and women going for medals in individual events, coming from different training camps.

Those other countries' teams generally lack the medal contention individuals, so not only is their only shot by executing a perfect race, but their team members are willing to put in the practice to get these handoffs just right.

So to the other guys point: relay handoffs arent talent, they're practice. The US never puts the work onto the handoff, so they at best manage to squeak it around inefficiently. Close to half of the time it really matters, they drop it.

Although in general it is rare for 400m guys to run a good 100m and vice versa, there is no real reason why they couldn't.

If a 100 guy does the appropriate work, he can run a good 400m without negatively impacting his 100m.

Same goes the other way round. If a 400 guy works on his start and first 30-60m he can run a good 100, but will never bother.

If sprint athletes were forced to run all three events, due to a team headcount limitation, they could train for and run elite times in all three events.

WVN could run 9.90 in season. So could MJ in his day. Tyson gay ran a 44. Even Christian Taylor the triple jumper has run 45.0.

ex-runner wrote:

Although in general it is rare for 400m guys to run a good 100m and vice versa, there is no real reason why they couldn't.

If a 100 guy does the appropriate work, he can run a good 400m without negatively impacting his 100m.

Same goes the other way round. If a 400 guy works on his start and first 30-60m he can run a good 100, but will never bother.

If sprint athletes were forced to run all three events, due to a team headcount limitation, they could train for and run elite times in all three events.

WVN could run 9.90 in season. So could MJ in his day. Tyson gay ran a 44. Even Christian Taylor the triple jumper has run 45.0.

I'll add that Bolt could have run 43. Lyles could run 44 or faster with his 31.8 indoor 300m world best.

I am sure there are many more names that could have or currently could run elite times over 100, 200 and 400.

Pretty much any athlete that has run under 20s for the 200m could run under 10s for the 100m.

I haven't read the whole thread. Why did he choke at the worlds?

El Keniano wrote:

I haven't read the whole thread. Why did he choke at the worlds?

He was injured.

zxcvzxcv wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

I personally think Gatlin is one the cleanest athletes in track & field.

Two suspensions says otherwise. He ran 9.74 and 9.75 twice in 2015!

9 9.74 +0.9 Justin Gatlin USA 10.02.82 1 Ad-Dawhah 15.05.2015

11 9.75 +0.9 Justin Gatlin USA 10.02.82 1rA Roma 04.06.2015

11 9.75 +1.4 Justin Gatlin USA 10.02.82 1rA Lausanne 09.07.2015

Here are the facts, Gatlin doped, got caught and paid the price for it. Gatlin returned to track & field under the most restrictive and intrusive watchful eye USADA could produce and the better he ran, the scrutiny he received. In 2015, Gatlin at times was tested multiple times in one week. He is still paying the price what he did. I know its cool and cute to say Gatlin is doping, but only a fool really believes its true. With all of that said, Gatlin does not need dope to run fast; those of us who have followed his career since high school expected him to be great.

Karma Police wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

I haven't read the whole thread. Why did he choke at the worlds?

He was injured.

No he wasn't, he choked.

TrackCoach wrote:

Karma Police wrote:

He was injured.

No he wasn't, he choked.

Norman has never had a history of choking, so that's not even plausible. He had an adductor issue from before US champs that flared up in Doha.

Even still, why would someone of his caliber choke in a semifinal and not in the final where he would have faced the eventual gold medallist? Make it make sense.

TrackCoach wrote:

No he wasn't, he choked.

He injured himself in training a week or so before the American trials, where he was able to hold together enough form to take second place. This is why he only ran a single race between the trials and the world championships, where despite trying to fight through the injury, he decided to shut down mid-race rather than risk further aggravation.

Left Said Fred wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

No he wasn't, he choked.

He injured himself in training a week or so before the American trials, where he was able to hold together enough form to take second place. This is why he only ran a single race between the trials and the world championships, where despite trying to fight through the injury, he decided to shut down mid-race rather than risk further aggravation.

+1

Saying Michael Norman choked is over-the-top. Choking is more along the lines of Asafa Powell in a 100m final.

Bahrain wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

No he wasn't, he choked.

My mistake, I thought we were talking about Gatlin.

Norman has never had a history of choking, so that's not even plausible. He had an adductor issue from before US champs that flared up in Doha.