50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

allen1959,

Good to see you back. I am sure you can make a schedule that allows you to continue to enjoy the sport.

Igy

Big Red, I can sympathize with Achilles issues, having lost a lot of running days over the past five years with mine. Good luck! I really hope that Boston goes in 2021 and that you can be there in good shape.

Rtype, I am jealous of your 5K! Go kill ‘em!

Mopac, I continue to enjoy reading about your highly varied activities. You are one tough dude.

Igy, we had more fireworks in our neighborhood than usual too. I guess you can’t blame people—they can’t go to bars, restaurants, movie theaters, or sporting events, so what else to do except buy a bunch of fireworks and set them off in the street? However, I didn’t appreciate them going on half the night. I might have slept through them but my dogs wouldn’t, and kept jumping up barking furiously every 5 minutes or so. By the time I got up this morning it was already getting hot and yet I hadn’t slept nearly enough, and I dialed back today’s run. So my planned 80+ miles for the week turned into 79. Still a solid week.

Allen1959, great to have you back. 15 miles per week is probably plenty for general fitness and health, and perhaps the occasional 5K race to keep things interesting?

My gym instituted a mandatory mask policy and I went there twice this week for the first time since March, albeit with some trepidation. I did just a very brief workout on Tuesday and a more complete one on Thursday, and was happy to find that after three months I haven’t lost too much upper-body strength, probably because I had so little to lose!

All of the races I would normally run through November have already been cancelled. The holiday 5K in December is still on the books but I'm skeptical. I guess I’m pointing toward the Modesto marathon or half-marathon in March 2021, for which I’m already entered after deferring from this year’s cancelled event. Right now the idea of running a marathon seems impossible—I haven’t run beyond 13 miles since mid-March, and I seem to have lost all of the strength in my legs. I don’t know whether that’s an effect of the PMR or of the prednisone I’m taking to suppress the symptoms. I could certainly get through a half-marathon now but it would be very slow, almost surely a PW. For now I’ll just keep plugging along and wait until it looks like some races will go again.

Stay healthy, everyone.

Interesting development...

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-epo-covid-.html?fbclid=IwAR3Lx2YrXCGzh3heYN_-iiVQhHCnmVDbYHgUh8nfNff1yVb4T0L-uS9tyQI

No goal race (s) but I do have some goal race times

Set age graded PR's in the 800 ,1500/Mile and 5000

I do enjoy racing at the Hayward Classic and am looking forward to running on the new Hayward Field hopefully next year.

Road Races used to be fun but have lost their appeal but I would like to do the Couples Classic 5k in February.

Good Recovery Week

50 minute daily slogs in the dunes

brain or legs were not wanting to do anything faster until Wednesday did 5x4' R 6'

added some downhill sprinting in the dunes amazing for turnover

3x30" R6' all out spritns on progressively steeper sand dune seems like I am generating more power from my hips than lower legs which helps. I used to rely too much on my lower legs probably because of rebound energy , glutes were weak underdeveloped running in sand removes all rebound energy so I have to use my glutes more makes a big difference.

Kinda' crappy week of 'training'...just 18 miles due to cortisone injection in foot...last one allowed prior to Fall foot surgery.

HOPING to get some kind of race in during 2020 in order to keep the streak alive... this year would /will make 51 consecutive years of competing without a single missed year.

...said streak is definitely in serious jeopardy.

Gotta' run...literally.

your pal,

MF

amk - Good luck getting to Modesto for 2021!

I'm feeling optimistic that we as a nation can pull it together, as Canada has done, with Covid 19. Time will tell.

EPO for Covid! Interesting concept. I've always wondered what EPO's long term effects might be, wouldn't want to find out personally. Let's ask Hicham El G!

I'm actually a fan of El G, I mean he ran the third 400 of the Olympic 1500 final in 53 seconds and looked completely relaxed -- but I don't doubt that Gebresalassie, Bekele, Lagat, El G and Komen, among others, used EPO.

glad you're finding a workaround on the knee issue. nice job on the mile time trial; looks like you paced it well, which I always find pretty difficult for the mile.

hot/humid all week in DC area:

M 8 miles

Tu 10 with drills/strides and 12 X 200 (200 jog) @3k pace (average 43 sec almost exactly)

W 12

Th 14 double

F 10 w/ 2 X 10:00 (2:00 recovery) at half-marathon pace -- came thru 1.5 miles at 9:50/9:48

Sa 11

Su 12

low-key Independence Day on our end. The pool at our condo building reopened just in time, and then we watched Hamilton. In general I'm not crazy about musicals, but I feel well to do now in light of how much less it cost than seeing it in person would have.

Have a great week,

Dave

dhaaga, like you, not 'into' musicals...but did score Hamilton tickets a year or so ago and thoroughly enjoyed it...a 'must see' regardless of format...and cool to have done so ON the 4th.

My 6 or so week delve into mile-5K training and time trialing is winding down with meh results. I did not progress. I have one more week--and only extended that because 'it' wasn't there again this week.

I did 4K TT/virtual race on Saturday, and was somewhat competitive age-grade wise, but just don't have that gear. It's interesting to watch and experience the ebbs and flows of running--I had a good trajectory but have taken a step back this year. Others were sort of down for a number of years and now in the virtual world have picked it up, excelled, or skyrocketed.

So will try the 5K next weekend for our own virtual series and will change things up by just running or a couple months. No races, virtual or otherwise (a few trail races have opened up this past month) planned until September. Maybe will run 8-9 hours a week, or cross train some to keep the volume. Maybe shut it down on Strava and social media. Go dark for a bit.

Did 6.3 hours this past week with 1 light workout and the TT.

Happy Belated 4th to All,

I continue to be healthy and am getting in the the most miles I've run in years. My short term goal races are a local sprint tri in August and one in September that I hope will actually happen. If they do, my plan is to cut back afterwards and just do maintenance for a while. I'm not optimistic that any road races will happen in my area for the rest of the year since I'm in a "hotspot" and people have unfortunately turned using common sense into a political statement.

Sun: 8.6 E, yoga

Mon: 6.0 E, 15 bike

Tue: 6.1 E, yoga, strength

Wed: 7.0 Track 3 x 1200 in 6:00/400 jog

Thu: 6.3 E, 15.9 bike

Fri: 14.1 E, strength

Sat: 25.4 bike, yoga

Total: 48.1 run, 56.3 bike

Long May You Run!

Hi,

my week was

Mo. 10x100 m with walk back

Tu. 8.5 miles easy

We. 1 h jumps, drills and sprints uphill

Th. 8.5 miles easy

Fr. 8.5 miles easy, i.e. 8:30 min/mile

Sa. 8x400 m uphill with jog back

Su. tried to run through a hangover in the early morning. did not work? and slowed down to walking after 30 min.

All the best to you runners! life is great! Stay safe and healthy!

past couple of weeks, my running has enjoyed the see-saw of life: 100 mile week followed by 36 mile week (family vacation), followed by a 78 mile week, followed by this week at 48 miles. i'm only keeping a log because i'm trying to get my high school kids to do so in a shared googledoc to try to motivate them during covid since i can't meet with them. my mileage this week was impacted by moving my daughter into her apartment in santa barbara as she prepares for her second year at ucsb--i mildly strained my back while moving a couch up stairs (you think i'd know better...), which led to two days off and a couple of easy days.

no racing has been a mixed bag--while i've been able to recover from injuries and increase fitness at a less stressful rate, it's also been easier to sandbag and/or float through workouts when the going gets tough. i don't have a problem with motivation in terms of getting out the door, but training hard does require a focus that, at least for me, comes from racing at least a few times a year. with that in mind, i'm considering the music city distance carnival track meet in nashville in august, though i'd be happy as long as carlsbad stays on the schedule in september, not to mention clubs x-c in san francisco in december. we can hope...

carpe crepusculum,

cush

socalcush wrote:

i'd be happy as long as carlsbad stays on the schedule in september

I had no idea Carlsbad was still scheduled for September. Unless something magical happens to my fitness in the next 6 weeks, I wouldn't even consider driving 6 hours to run a competitive 5K. But with all of my local races cancelled until at least December, it does sound tempting!

Outstanding training by a lot of people this week. This is one reason I come here: to be inspired. The people who are struggling inspire me, too, because I am struggling myself.

Today I finally hit 160 pounds, which was my goal. I started at 184 pounds on Jan. 1. Unfortunately there is still a sizable roll of fat around my waist and covering my belly. I guess all the muscle I used to have really did turn to fat as I aged. Now I am thinking of going to 156, which would be BMI 18.5, but we’ll see.

How thin is too thin? I imagine the answer differs for different people. I happen to be small-boned. Lasse Viren, Finland, used to race at 5’11”, 130-134 pounds (BMI 18.1-18.7). He won four Olympic gold medals: 5000 and 10,000 in 1972, 5000 and 10,000 in 1976. Just 18 hours after he won his second gold medal of the Games in the 1976 5000 final, Viren competed in the Olympic marathon and finished 5th in 2:13. He’s an example of someone who flourished on the low end of the BMI scale.

Week of June 29-July 5, 2020

MONDAY - 2 miles walking, Back stretches, Lower Body strength workout.

TUESDAY - 4 miles slow running on the track, Regular stretches, Upper Body strength workout.

WEDNESDAY - 2 miles walking, Back stretches, Lower Body strength workout.

THURSDAY - 4 miles slow running on the track, Regular stretches.

FRIDAY - 2 miles walking, Upper Body strength workout, Lower Body strength workout.

SATURDAY - 4 miles slow running on the track, Regular stretches, Back stretches, Knee exercises.

SUNDAY - 2 miles walking, Back stretches, Lower Body strength workout, Knee exercises.

Totals:

12 miles running, 8 miles walking, stretching, strengthening

Keep on, with the force don't stop

Don't stop 'til you get enough

- M. Jackson, 1979

I'm happy to say that yesterday I finally had my first run in about a month where I didn't spend it all thinking, "I'd really like to slow to a walk and go home". June as a tough month and after almost no running the last two weeks, my Saturday 6 miles on the trails with my son felt good, and the 8:52/mile pace was a good easy run pace for me. I think that I am now back out of the fatigue hole that I dug myself into with high mileage in May.

BM 1958, I think you are right that the answer to the question of "how thin is too thin" is very individual. My younger son and I have always been in the low to mid 19s for BMI, with me at 5'8" and him at 6'0". My older son at 5'11", who is the best runner among us, was in the 17s in high school, low 18s in college, and at age 40 is only 2-4 lbs over his college racing weight. I think that BMI is one of those things that is mostly genetically determined.

As for racing plans, I still am preparing for the Carlsbad 5k on Sep. 22, but I doubt that it will happen. My main goal races are Club XC in December and USATF XC in February 2021. I think that Club XC is unlikely, but still possible to stay on schedule, and USATF XC still looks likely.

If I don't make a total hash of July training I plan to do at least a mile and 5k time trials in August.

Stay healthy and pray for a reliable race calendar!

MikeF wrote:

Kinda' crappy week of 'training'...just 18 miles due to cortisone injection in foot...last one allowed prior to Fall foot surgery.

HOPING to get some kind of race in during 2020 in order to keep the streak alive... this year would /will make 51 consecutive years of competing without a single missed year.

...said streak is definitely in serious jeopardy.

Gotta' run...literally.

your pal,

MF

What kind of foot surgery are you having?

old guy II wrote:

BM 1958, I think you are right that the answer to the question of "how thin is too thin" is very individual. My younger son and I have always been in the low to mid 19s for BMI, with me at 5'8" and him at 6'0". My older son at 5'11", who is the best runner among us, was in the 17s in high school, low 18s in college, and at age 40 is only 2-4 lbs over his college racing weight. I think that BMI is one of those things that is mostly genetically determined.

old guy II, good feedback, thanks. Your older son sounds very disciplined: kudos to him.

I have been trying to do several things at once, which is probably too many things:

- Lose weight

- Heal injuries

- Build mileage

- Build muscle

Unfortunately, losing weight and building muscle are almost diametrically opposed.

Healing injuries and building mileage are also almost diametrically opposed.

The good news is, the weight is now about where I want it, and I don't intend to increase mileage for a while (beyond the current 12 mpw--not sure if I can even maintain it there). This simplifies things considerably.

Losing weight, increasing strength, and improving biomechanics lessens the probability of running injury. These variables are chains of factors influencing the whole. Not either or, and best applied in moderation over time. Taken to extreme, the obese person with knee problems should consider losing weight first (diet plus exercise) before sawing their leg in half, and having a prosthetic device installed. Seems simple and intuitive. I am pretty sure extreme endurance training at a young age comes with some negatives, and that would apply as masters athletes as well. So as in most things moderation, but moderation only takes you so far. That is the conundrum, isn’t it?

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

So as in most things moderation, but moderation only takes you so far. That is the conundrum, isn’t it?

True. Frankly, to run races at our age is almost by definition going beyond the bounds of moderation.

I am thinking about making one change to my training schedule this week, which would actually simplify it, while giving me one extra running day every two weeks.

In the past, maybe like most people, I have used a weekly training schedule. Recently I have been trying to run 3X/week, which means I have two non-running days after my last run of each week. That's been driving me stir-crazy.

Now I am thinking about changing to a two-day training schedule with no days off: Day 1, which includes running, stretching, and lifting; and Day 2, which includes stretching and lifting, but not running. This would give me a seventh running day for every two-week training period.

Essentially all Day 1's would be the same, and all Day 2's would be the same.

I don't need much training variety in my Day 1's, which is my running day, because I'm not doing any speedwork and don't plan to. I am too injury-prone. I have some natural speed anyway.

Also I don't plan to do any events shorter than 5K's, if I get to the point where I can race. I think a tempo run every other day would be sufficient for 5K training at my level. It's not like I'll be challenging the leaders. If I ever get into a situation where I am in a fight to the finish against another 60-64 age group guy, I'm not worried about getting outkicked. How fast can the guy be, if he's not ahead of me that late in the race? ;-)

The one exception I am planning is a long run every weekend. I can't do a long run yet, but if my training continues to go OK, I would like to start doing long(er) runs next year.

Just thinking out loud here, as I think ahead. Apologies if this is not what the forum is for. Probably getting way ahead of myself anyway.