50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

racerdb wrote:...a mediocre half marathon on Saturday.

One man's mediocre is another man's awesome. I'd be thrilled to get within 5 minutes of that these days. Helluva 6 mile stretch you put on in the middle.

racerdb wrote:And I really need to do something about dying whenever I hit a hill...

Back in my teens, when I spent the summers in SW Michigan, we'd routinely venture over to Mount Baldy at Indiana Dunes St. Park to do repeats up the dune. Low impact, hard work, then cool off in Lake Michigan. That's easy driving distance for you, yes? Just a thought.

Week 69: 11 hours 58 minutes in 11 runs, one of them a workout.

Sat 2 hr 33 long run, negative split at 1 hr 27 out, 1 hr 06 back, 3x strides.

I decided to do at least six easy days to recover from the 20K, so converted the Tuesday AM workout to an easy run. Did a few strides on Wednesday and Thursday. By Friday I was really clipping along on my runs, so allowed myself a moderate effort on Saturday. I'm told it was 8 miles each way, add maybe up to one mile of extra jogging on the out portion--I jog while everyone else mills around at the three water stops. I did put up with about 6 minutes of socializing/picture taking at the turnaround, which I added to the back time. I was a little shocked at the out time, this was supposed to be a 9:30/mile pace group. They finally rolled in from their 22-miler at 3 hours 44 minutes by my watch. Stupid Garmins are set to autopause at the water stops.

I did a bad thing on this long run. One of the women was talking about her marathon goal time, discussing with her friends whether she could run 3:30. She said something like "I don't know if I can do it, but I don't want to say it's impossible." The bad thing was when I interjected, "Oh, I think it's impossible." I'm old enough to know that silence is golden. Nothing against this runner, I just know that lackadaisical long runs don't get it done. But she didn't hang around for any explanation.

racerdb wrote:

And I really need to do something about dying whenever I hit a hill...

Dying is good. You are doing it right. It's called racing. Even before your post I decided I wimped out big time on the uphill finish of my 20K. I didn't so much die, as avoid dying. I need to die a little bit more. The special problem of youth is that they don't know their limits. They don't have sense enough to be afraid at all. The special problem of age is that we DO know our limits. And we are overly afraid.

From USATF 5K Championships:

http://www.leonetiming.com/2012/Festival12.htm

For the men:

-Overall winner: Kevin Castille, 40, 14:24

-Fastest 50+ was Dennis Simonaitis, 50, 15:24 (no surprise)

-Highest age-grade: Hugh Campbell, 88, 26:45, 101.93

For the women:

-Overall winner: Sonja Friend-Uhl, 41, 16:50

-Fastest 50+ was Doreen McCoubrie, 50, 18:23

-Highest age-grade: Jan Holmquist, 68, 21:19, 101.15

Overall, 23 90+ age-graders. Nice.

Another 35 mile week with one day off for the stationary bike. I just did a long steady session on the bike instead of intervals because my hamstrings were acting up. I'm headed up to Maine for long Columbus Day weekend and want to be ready for my favorite dirt road loops and trails. Too cold to hop in the lake afterwards, but the magnificent fall colors compensate very nicely.

My fastest 5K in the past two years is probably 17:45.

Was going to make some lame commentary about the completely pedestrian 52 miles I 'ran' this week when I happened upon the below linked essay in this morning's New York Times penned by two old pals of mine, George Hirsch and Amby Burfoot...it is entitled "The Honorable Clan of the Long Distance Runner" and reading it softened the blow of my pathetic and aged running demise

MF @ 56.5 and 19:54 :[

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/sports/essay-the-honorable-clan-of-the-long-distance-runner.html

MikeF wrote:

... reading it softened the blow of my pathetic and aged running demise

When we don't run, it's our actual demise that is pathetic. I know what sub-20 cost me, so don't minimize yours.

MikeF wrote:

Was going to make some lame commentary about the completely pedestrian 52 miles I 'ran' this week when I happened upon the below linked essay in this morning's New York Times penned by two old pals of mine, George Hirsch and Amby Burfoot...it is entitled "The Honorable Clan of the Long Distance Runner" and reading it softened the blow of my pathetic and aged running demise

MF @ 56.5 and 19:54 :[

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/sports/essay-the-honorable-clan-of-the-long-distance-runner.html

Thanks for a good read

I will probably stick the following snippet in my log

"we know that our slowing times don’t diminish us. Like many of our friends, we run and compete for personal reasons. We have learned to take the measure of ourselves, and not to let others define who we are."

Charlie wrote:

Thanks for a good read

I will probably stick the following snippet in my log

"we know that our slowing times don’t diminish us. Like many of our friends, we run and compete for personal reasons. We have learned to take the measure of ourselves, and not to let others define who we are."

and THAT, Charlie is just EXACTLY what I'm talking about...wish that I could have said it as well as George and Amby.

long may you run,

MF

Charlie wrote:...I will probably stick the following snippet in my log "we know that our slowing times don’t diminish us. Like many of our friends, we run and compete for personal reasons. We have learned to take the measure of ourselves, and not to let others define who we are."

MikeF wrote:and THAT, Charlie is just EXACTLY what I'm talking about...

Thanks MikeF! I really enjoyed the article and couldn't agree more with the sentiment. I had to share it with my FB friends, as well. Cheers!

Age 64...will hit 65 in January (sigh!!!). 21:21 this June.Fighting a month long battle with Piriformis so not a whole lot of quality running going on at the moment...just miles.

ANOTHER cancer survivor here: Presented with a rare form of Leukemia (Acute promyeloctic Leukemia) in July of '08. A month stay in hospital then did 3 rounds of chemo as an out patient and ran throughout.WBC continues to be quite low (2.3-2.7), but Hemo and RBC are normal.

Mon - 1 hr kyak on the lake.

Tue - 2 hr run on steep trails.

Wed - 2 hr mountain bike ride on steep trails.

Thu - 1 hr kyak on the lake.

Fri - 1.5hr run on the steep trails.

Sat - Otherwise engaged.

Sun - 2 hr 30 min run on steep trails.

Things didn't quite go to plan. Had intended to do some faster running thursday but had a spill off the bike on wednesday and was a bit too sore for a run. Still a bit sore on friday but went out and ran slowly in the hills, pulled up feeling better than when I started.

Saturday was AFL Grand Final day so.

Sunday's long run went well, I added another steep climb to my circuit out the back of my home. Only covered about 24k but added up to nearly 700m of elevation gain.

Didn't get out at all today, left for work at 6am. and arrived home just after 11pm. Very long (double) shift.

Planning on doing something like some 1k reps tomorrow if the legs feel ok. I don't have to be at work until 1pm so might also get in some bike or kyak.

We have the first day of track season on saturday. I'd like to have a hit out in the 3k. I'm hoping it will be scheduled for late in the afternoon as I am working the friday night shift and won't get back home until 8.30 sat. morning.

GeezerGuy wrote:

Age 64...will hit 65 in January (sigh!!!). 21:21 this June.Fighting a month long battle with Piriformis so not a whole lot of quality running going on at the moment...just miles.

Interested in the Piriformis. I seem to be suffering from the same thing, but just run through it. Never too painful, just aggravating. Doesn't bother me during runs and I do mile repeats and quarters, but does seem to bother me most when sitting or driving (guess that's sitting also).

Question: Have any of you others on the board suffered this "pain in the butt" and what did you do? Did you run through it and it eventually went away? keep running and it just keeps hanging around? or take time off?

GeezerGuy,

There is a study on AML and exercise, here is the abstract:

A clinical trial of supervised exercise for adult inpatients with acute myeloid leukemia (AML) undergoing induction chemotherapy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22726923

If you want the full text article send me an email and I'll send it to you. I got an email back last week from the Primary Investigator (PI) about the next phase of the study where they will look at response rates to the cancer treatment between an exercise group vs. a sedentary control group. He said they know the response rates to the above study but didn't have a control to compare them to.

This is one of my interests and advocacy issues, most all exercise studies on cancer survivors, either during treatment or after (and a few prior to treatment), have looked at Quality of Life (QoL) measures, but only 2 in humans that I'm aware of, one in a mouse, have looked ar response rates to treatment with exercise as an intervention. It is my opinion that QoL has been overstudied and that more of the future research needs to start measuring whether those who exercise are actually showing better clinical outcomes in addition to QoL measures.

I love to play poker, so I'm a betting man, and I'm pretty confident that if someone is going to study exercise and cancer treatments that the subjects' QoL is going to be enhanced. What I want to know, and I don't understand why it hasn't been better researched to date, is whether exercise will improve the response to the cancer treatment?

I was encouraged that the PI in the article above had decided to look at it in their next phase. A researcher in Canada, Dr. Kerry Corneya, has decided to begin measuring clinical outcomes, like response rates, in his upcoming studies. He and others, myself included, realize that they have to start measuring outcomes that are more likely to have an impact on practicing oncologists. QoL measures seem to have done little to impress upon oncologists the idea to get their patients exercising.

If you wouldn't mind telling me, did you oncologist ever suggest that you exercise during treatment, or was that mainly your initiative? Do you take extra precautionary measures against infection with WBC's that low? What kind of chemo, I see something about a VItA derivative?

The QB coach for the Colts was just announced today as having APL.

All the best!

Ken

I've gotten flare ups with my piriformis on and off for the past 20 years. Never had an issue with them in my 20's and 30's. Don't know if age contributes to the probability of it barking, but probably so. I don't have any specific treatments I do to get rid of it. I NEVER ice it,though. I only apply heat...especially before I hit the road. I have a hand massager I use to keep it loose (I always felt that a roller irritated it more). Piriformis issues are tough because of all the other muscle/tendon groups around it. I always try to

make sure I keep my hammy's, calves, and lower back loose when I have a P flareup, and I do use the roller on them.

Sitting is a killer for me as well. They say it's about the worst thing you can do with a piriformis issue.

The good news is-at least for me so far: It always subsides at some point. Good luck with it!

ScottDye wrote:

Interested in the Piriformis. I seem to be suffering from the same thing, but just run through it. Never too painful, just aggravating. Doesn't bother me during runs and I do mile repeats and quarters, but does seem to bother me most when sitting or driving (guess that's sitting also).

Question: Have any of you others on the board suffered this "pain in the butt" and what did you do? Did you run through it and it eventually went away? keep running and it just keeps hanging around? or take time off?

Scott 2 things worked for me that is not already covered better online

When sitting or driving I would sit on a ski belt. With the ski belt positioned under my hamstrings. This let my butt/tail bone kind of hand. Oh man instant relief drove serveral time from austin tx to oregon no problemo

Still use this when driving my tacoma.

Something like this:

The other different deal was a side leg stretch. Stand facing a park bench or what ever lets you hang on with your hands while standing upright. Feet/legs together. Then slowly lift / extend either leg keeping the leg straight to the side you can bend forward a bit the lifting is not front or back but sideways. I still do 3 x 10 each leg before running.

Oooops hang not hand

This let my butt/tail bone kind of hand.

This let my butt/tail bone kind of hang.

Thanks for the information. I have read it might be caused by tight hip flexors and I for one, never do any stretching. The idea of bending sideways to stretch seems like it might help. I also have noticed that it does just seem to go away after awhile, but have never focused too much on it or if there is something which makes it go away. I also understand it is a very difficult issue to diagnose because of some many other muscles in the area. Perhaps it has just been lingering a little longer than usual.

Back on page 75 of the thread, I was lamenting that I wasn't making progress with the exercises I was doing to combat piriformis issues (note: I spelled it with a "y" back then, which seems to be an alternate, but not standard spelling), and Alan Bennet offered this suggestion:

I can now report that this is working great. I'm not out of the woods yet, but in the two weeks that I've been doing it (and I'm not going crazy with it either, just every other day, and without added weight), the tension and discomfort in that region has gone down noticably, so I highly recommend the hip-raising exercises. So thanks again, AlanB!