The Trials and Tribulations of Running YouTubers

Because I know few people want to sit and listen to Matt Fox talk, I got an app to transcribe part of his recent rant about LR on his podcast, so you don't miss out on this gold: (For context Max was one of the co-hosts of the S/E Podcast , Coached Matt for a while & was a S/E Coach)

"What happened... so Hendrick asks 'what happened to that guy Max, I really enjoyed his insights in training' so Max was on our podcast for a few months, oh gee I hope Max isn't listening and I hope anyone that's friends with Max isn't listening but this is going to be a little bit of a rant so.... I never really knew Max overly well, so Max was a coach for Sweat Elite Coaching Academy for a little while, he joined the podcast for a little while and I didn't know him super well before it but met him a couple of times in Boulder and always thought the dude was very insightful, very knowledgeable but when I started working with him it just became apparent that he was very very hard to work with.

I think another thing that really bothered me too was he just kept thanking LetsRun on the podcast and kept referring to LetsRun and I have a pretty big issue, a major issue with LetsRun because part of the reason why I'm not doing much content anymore with professional athletes and that's a whole other thing I'll talk about some time and spoke a bit about on the last week's podcast but I think I'll dive deep into that next week because I've had a lot of questions about that, about isn't the whole brand built around that. Yes for sure it was, but I only see LetsRun as two things: they do content and I listen to that podcast and I've actually been a patron of that podcast and I actually think that is a good stuff they right good articles, Jonathan Gault is brilliant is one of the best in the field in my opinion [...] but the way in which that forum functions has in my opinion, as this podcast is called, has really crippled the innovation of sports media because of the ability for people to write in there and dishonestly, with no repercussions and no consequences because the amount of stuff written in that forum that is completely wrong completely made up and it's just psychos in there and to be honest I know for sure Max is one of those people that does that and I when I stay with him in Boulder for a few days he was on LetsRun a lot he was talking about people getting slandered on there, he was adding to the slander and I know for sure even over the last few months he has been, I wouldn't be surprised if he was doing it to me before I started working with him because he's just that sort of person... he's a sort of person that gets really envious of people that succeed. I've got that vibe from him and I just I don't want to be around those people, I just that's not me it's not what I want to deal with and I want to be away from that but LetsRun have really crippled SweatElite and the forums it's been really disappointed because oftentimes pro athletes read that stuff and they don't know if it's true or not, there's people posting in there all sorts of things about me that are completely made up from like I give drugs to athletes or I've been banned from countries, to one person was saying that I've been banned from Australia my own country, what, and I've even contacted....

So they've got to a point a few months ago with it with that whole Israeli thing that I got a lawyer to call...what's his name... not Gault, the twins.... Johnson? and this stunned me, the lawyer called The Johnson Brothers the one that's always like ranting and always like just seems like you irritated and when he called him and he said 'hey man like you got a whole lot of stuff on your forum it's false we know that we can't do much about it because it's not you that's posting it and it's annonymous people but..' and Johnson... whatever the... Robert? was Robert? it was the one whatever... the bigger guy. There's one guy on the podcast who always seems to be sort of the chirpy one and one that's not, he started basically saying out of nowhere how he thinks that those things should remain on the forum because I am a bad person and he was really worked up an angry about the idea of like protecting me as a person for a slander. He was going 'I keep hearing all these really bad things about you' and I'm like of course you do because you're reading the bull**** posts on your own forum I've never like... I've never met him, I've never spoken to him in my life, I actually quite like his podcast and I like those takes but after that I was like okay we're playing a game here where you... I mean it's obviously in your best interest to be trying to bring me down because we're... you know in a way competing companies, sort of, we have running Media podcast and they no doubt, like no question would they remove stuff that's written about them because they have the ability to and if I had a guy that worked for me through this year called Alex... I'm gonna stitch him up a little bit here because he worked for a while I really liked him I got along with him really well but when that whole Israel thing came out he left and blocked me on all accounts I never ever had any issue with him I never ever had, I got along with him super well and it's because he also believed that stuff.... like, I thought I gave you a good opportunity to like work with us... like like.... what and so oh god I've got a long way over from the point....

Max..... like Max is involved in all of that stuff and I've also told him a few things that I only told the handful of people and when things that I tell only a handful of people pop up on LetsRun then it's really easy to see who it is and that also happened with Dominic sorta from the RunningEffect podcast a few years ago I told him something that I didn't really hadn't told anyone else it wasnt even really a private thing it was just a factual piece of information and then I saw it [on LR] like okay it was obvious like it's obvious thats you and I've noticed that about... that's the other problems with Max was he wasn't programming people properly at all as a coach he was giving people workout marathon specific workouts when they're training for 5K he wasnt even really thinking about how their program, how you program people he was regularly turning up to podcast recordings with me 20 to 30 minutes late having not even eaten yet so that he'd quickly go and eat while I'm waiting for him and it just it was a nightmare he was also extremely rude to Reem multiple times like when Reem was trying to clarify like a payment thing he's like get really really aggressive with her there about how she couldn't do math when I had nothing to do with that and so all those things just made me just not liking this at all so yeah... Max knows his stuff with training for sure but unfortunately that's all you hear when you're listening but behind the scenes oh and he was just so difficult to work with and I visited boulder in April a stay with him and I think that was what it became really LetsRun a lot slandering people with all these different demands that he wanted from the business like health insurance, we're not even registered in the U.S we've had an acquisition fall through due to LetsRun about a year ago a group of people were interested in buying us out and they came across all the forums stuff and I'm just like... like some people listenening to this they might get a little bit of entertainment from it like you probably don't really realize how I view it because I have had only downside to me and even people like New Gen Track and Field:

Ben Crawford when he got cancelled was like a year and a half ago like over something with females... and LetsRun ruined an $80,000 Hoka Deal like in my eyes the reason why the media world in running is not a great is in part because whenever anyone does anything good and they get a little bit big is that this happens. I don't know how much it happens to CITIUS or Flowtrack as I don't really look at it but whenever someone gets big they just have all these haters come off these envious people that sit in the dark room they make up stuff and then those people send stuff to sponsors and this is how so many relationships are broken over LetsRun forums and these ridiculous people in the forums and so anyway I've gone away from the question but I've emailed Jonathan Gault and asked him can you please remove my name entirely from your website because it's in his best interest not to I mean he wants... he would want every other Media company to fail like that's what they seem to be like over there I have tried to explain them in detail about these things not being true and then like I was like god there's someone saying that police like sending in photos being I was just there but I'm going like what how am I supposed to prove this stuff to you isn't true and he just so the whole topic of me doing content around priorities I'll talk about in detail next week but I'm just so sick like I flew to Boulder in August in July around the time that that whole Israel dude started going crazy I mean kind of ironic that the Israel today was issued an arrest warrant for the international criminal Court, I wonder how that guy feels now, but I flew to Boulder spent two grand on a trip flights accommodation bike rental everything and when that thing came out the two athletes that I went to work with both cancelled and so I'm spending so much time and effort on this thing and LetsRun just keep like these forums just so I'm now trying to put myself in a position that these forums cant effect me and that means doing less content with pros because I'd also don't really want to work with that many brands unless I'm like honest, they're upfront and say 'hey guys like stick to these contracts' because Precision Fuel and Hydration pulled out because of that **** too, stride did too and I'm just like no longer do I want to deal with this, I want to put myself.... so rant over."

(Haven't listened to the subsequent Podcast yet)

Also, to the mods, this is all a direct quote, so pls dont delete this.

Good on Letsrun!

By the time Fox's disjointed rant references the international criminal court I think he has rather diminished any iota of credibility he may have had in referencing it.

I've got a (single) full senior England vest (and no GB vest).

My angle is the article now means their interchangable so I'm going to update my bios to "GB athlete"...

Tongue in cheek obviously, but to non-runners (which FT audience mainly are) it wouldn't have made much difference putting "England" instead of "GB". Noone bar very keen club runners upwards know it's such a big jump/different level.

Anya mentioned on a podcast that she’s aiming to run 2:45 in Valencia. Doesn’t seem particularly ambitious at this point. Most likely, Runna and Lululemon are covering the bills, so why not? Ben Parkes’ goals are probably far from what they were a few years ago as well, but does it really matter? They get to create content and enjoy the hobby if they want to. Maybe Ben could stop referring to himself as a 2:25 marathoner, though—it’s been quite a few years since that.

Yes i agree with your point on its (lack of) significance to the likely readership but imo it comes down to integrity and linked to that a post -truth idea that certain people will lie - or at least twist the truth where it's something not quite so measurable- as far as they can to the extent that they think they can get away with it.
And they will do so particularly when lies will give them some boost in money and/or attention. Any athlete who gets 'only' an England vest sure as hell knows that it is absolutely not a GB vest! (What might the FT have written if she were Welsh/Scottish/NI?!).

That’s crazy

I do agree with you, theyre both engaging the public as can be demonstrated by the views/sponsorship they get.

My "irk" with Anya is that she was on edge of being a elite runner, still making big "newer runner" gains and seemed to give up on the dream of GB vest/being elite athlete straight away. People will say maybe she enjoys it (and it's better for mental health) aiming to be ambassador than elite but I personally want to believe I'm pushing my limits and she's obviously not now. Tbf she's still got time on her side, and ability so option to take running (rather than ambassador/influencer/coaching angle) seriously is still there.

Ben Felton in 2:24:53 in Valencia just now.

It's a shame because, like you say, she was close to becoming a legitimate top British runner while she was working with and being paced by bester at races. Quitting work to becoming a full time runfluencer (I don't think anyone at Runna is coaching even close to part time, it's an app that uses algorithms to adjust paces through a block - they're not sat there going through an athletes workouts and speaking to them to help make adjustments, as evidenced imo by the amount of whole team trips they seem to take)

I think having a full time job to run around - forcing the "I must get a run/workout done before work and a shakeout afterwards" etc thinking, and with a coach who would literally take her to the finish line at races I don't think she's developed the discipline to train full time, or the race craft to push truly hard for a race so she takes the relatively easy option of a decent ish finish time for a normal person because that's the target market for runna and Lululemon.

Ben Felton a lot of effort and some stupidly high mileage to not even hit a PB

Ben Parkes a lot of miles in training to then turn up at Valencia and treat as a tempo effort

Tom Wheatley from the Run Testers was looking for 2:55 it appears but his pace went out like a candle in the second half it appears

It's a pity Fordy Runs wasn't there attempting to hit "goal pace" for 5k then stop because one of his mates was "in trouble" and they had to "walk it in"

It's time to catch up with our favorite YouTubers, and also to call out the Runna App.

Kofuzi is now sponsored by Runna, a sponsorship he doesn't disclose in his many posts & podcasts mentioning the app. The App apparently helped him to a 20th place and an age group silver in his local Turkey Trot:

Now it's time to call out the Runna App. Not only did they work with Matt Choi to impede people in the New York Marathon, they're now an official sponsor of scam races. These things are advertised as races but are "private group runs." Runna is now a sponsor of them.

thebestraces.com

Set a Goal for a 5K/10K/13.1

devadmin

The best way to prepare for tomorrow is doing your best today. Set a goal and run a 5K/10K/13.1 Race with us! Find a race near you in over 16 Cities!

Open link

I guess it's appropriate for an app that is a fake coach to sponsor fake races.

Speaking of fake races, the Believe in the Run crew doesn't want to miss out on the monetization potential, so they decided to charge you $64 bucks to sign up and pledge to train through the winter. Asics is sponsoring this nonsense (note to Asics: people might buy more shoes if they didn't waste money on stuff like this). Though I guess it's not a total scam as you do get an Asics Crewneck, a Believe in the Run hat and, wait for it, a digital certificate for your $64.

runsignup.com

GRIT

It's going to be an out-of-this-world Winter GRIT. Join me. #GRITGANG2024

Open link

Though in what must be a first for them, Believe in the Run did disclose that Adidas paid for their Berlin trip in their recent reviews of Adidas shoes.

Getting back to more tolerable content that doesn't promote outright scam races, Allie Ostrander tried to PR in the 5k at the local Turkey Trot, but alas the course was short. Still a good effort!

Allie had a pacer for her Turkey Trot, her partner Spencer Brown AKA The Athlete Special;

The Doctors of Running crew is doing a podcast all about Brooks and innovation. I guess change comes to even old standbys like the Ghost. This continues their series of podcasts tailored to specific brands.

Phily Bowden has posted something like 25 videos on her 2:25 marathon at Berlin. Her latest one says to go run 10ks. Hopefully she runs another marathon soon so we can get different content!

Finally, it seems that Matt Choi has been cancelled for impeding runners and creating a security issue with his bike escorts in the New York Marathon. He posted a video about it which of course takes himself waaaaaaay to seriously. It is low-key hilarious. And that's all the time we have for Running YouTubers today. I have to go run my third Turkey Trot of the week. My last chance to outdo Kofuzi and bring home age group gold!

Age group gold! Take that Kofuzi & Runna App!

I don't know what's going on with his running, but Kofuzi's recent workouts and performances are not a strong endorsement for the Runna app.

7 seconds off PB for Ben Felton after coming back from disc injuries is pretty good. He kept his aerobic fitness by biking, but didn't have the mileage in his legs for his Berlin attempt, so bumped up the running volume to lead up to Valencia. I think he did really well.

It's not bad, but he won't be happy. He was "chasing 2:20" in Valencia in 2022, two years later, finally has a coach, and he didn't even get his PB. Hopefully he stays injury free and can put in another good block, but I still think he's a good way away from cracking 2:20.

That Matt Fox transcript reads like the ramblings of a mad man.

The continued twisting of everything into self-victimisation and pointing the finger at others are totally insane.

I used to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially in the Bester saga (who I believe is fundamentally harmless, albeit unbelievably cringe) but have totally switched Fox/Sweat Elite off, especially since the YT became just another training diary.

Everywhere he goes, he claims that it smells like a Dog went number two, and yet he seems totally incapable of checking the sole of his own shoe.

Community engagement is more important than their performance. Brands just want eyes on their products. There are a lot of suckers in the running space.

Ben is one of the shoetubers I've been impressed with the level he's reached. It really like most are in the "lucky to break 3 hours" crowd and just kind of hover around that level before inevitably getting injured or aging out of fitness. But with these guys running genuinely fast times and trying to improve, there's a more interesting game going on. They clearly have a pretty good level of running talent that allows them to train and improve quickly but then they also get to that point where their next goal is more ambitious and their training starts to top out. So, unlike the casual 3 hour guys, these guys suddenly have that level of performance and expectation. Then they have to get educated on more serious training methods/trends, get a coach, and really become "experts" in running. But, they are still relatively young in terms of training age, so they then have to deal with serious injuries and fitness loss for the first time but with the added pressure of being more committed to running, both personally and as part of their income because of their shoetuber status. And finally they enter the weird stage where despite being able to train pretty much full time, having a coach, and educating themselves about every training term in popular literature, they just can't seem to match that same time they ran when they were relatively young and naive to running. It's a very interesting thing to see them grapple with but one I imagine most high school/college runners had to deal with at some point, minus the audience of tens of thousands of subscribers.