This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
Except it's not a losing position. You just have nothing compelling to offer after 3+ years, and it sucks for you that the virus wasn't more deadly and that the vaccine really was not great and no better than natural immunity, because then perhaps, you would have a good argument. We figured it out, you didn't, well, not until it was too late, and boy does that chap your azz.
So, all you have left is to is keep talking about No-vax... or something. Compelling! People don't leave because they feel defeated; they leave because there are a million better things to do than listen to a smug narcissist drone on about nothing.
So it seem the vaccine actually works quite well you admit now... as opposed to be a deadly disaster. Noted. Progress!
It's very much a winning position. If you leave, you concede defeat. Those are the eternal rules of debate. Sorry, bub
Actually, the real acknowledgment here is that you admit natural immunity is as good as vaccined-induced immunity. Noted. Progress! So, the vaccines were unnecessary for most except the riskiest groups.
A winning position. We agree. Chokervic! If only he'd gotten immunized the mechanical way, he'd have like 35 slams, or something. Rodgers is young, damn it!
You ignored it because you can’t obfuscate his track record. He’s won 8 of the last 17 grand slam titles since 2020. Despite being prevented from playing two that he likely would have won. I mean only 8 players in the modern era have won that many titles. He was approaching 33 years old as this stretch started. Aside from Nadal and Federer the only person older than 32 to win a title in 52 years was Andre Agassi, which was shocking at the time. His run of championships at his age is unprecedented. To say otherwise proves you don’t care about abject reality. Just you perception.
You ignored it because you can’t obfuscate his track record. He’s won 8 of the last 17 grand slam titles since 2020. Despite being prevented from playing two that he likely would have won. I mean only 8 players in the modern era have won that many titles. He was approaching 33 years old as this stretch started. Aside from Nadal and Federer the only person older than 32 to win a title in 52 years was Andre Agassi, which was shocking at the time. His run of championships at his age is unprecedented. To say otherwise proves you don’t care about abject reality. Just you perception.
Or he's just an extreme troll. Remember, he once accused No-vax of taking PEDs to sustain that streak you just, correctly, pointed to. Now, he says age isn't an issue because No-vax takes extremely good care of himself, without seeing the contradiction. No-vax does take extremely good care of himself, which includes refusing the vaccine. Dude is iconic.
I think 3-4 vaccinations and Omciron infection is almost as good as natural immunity and Omicron infection, but also not without widely adverse impacts and also, largely, unnecessary for most of the population. I repeat, it's a shame for you the virus wasn't more deadly, that the vaccines weren't better at both preventing infection and stopping spread after 1-2 shots, tops, and that you didn't figure this out much sooner as we all did.
Certainly is a strong word with absolutely nothing to back it up. But it doesn't matter, Rodgers was correct, he was immunized.
So if you think the vaccines worked similar to natural immunity then you have to agree they saved millions of lives and prevented many more severe cases and hospitalizations.
So it seem the vaccine actually works quite well you admit now... as opposed to be a deadly disaster. Noted. Progress!
It's very much a winning position. If you leave, you concede defeat. Those are the eternal rules of debate. Sorry, bub
Actually, the real acknowledgment here is that you admit natural immunity is as good as vaccined-induced immunity. Noted. Progress! So, the vaccines were unnecessary for most except the riskiest groups.
A winning position. We agree. Chokervic! If only he'd gotten immunized the mechanical way, he'd have like 35 slams, or something. Rodgers is young, damn it!
My post from last page:
You said the vaccine was no better than natural immunity. That means it could be as good! Do you think natural immunity is bad?
The data show the vaccine is better than natural immunity but still, you admitting it was as good is a big step. (Unless you think natural immunity is garbage)
The vaccines have proven to be 'worth it' for all groups for which they were approved. Death and severe disease data show this.
You ignored it because you can’t obfuscate his track record. He’s won 8 of the last 17 grand slam titles since 2020. Despite being prevented from playing two that he likely would have won. I mean only 8 players in the modern era have won that many titles. He was approaching 33 years old as this stretch started. Aside from Nadal and Federer the only person older than 32 to win a title in 52 years was Andre Agassi, which was shocking at the time. His run of championships at his age is unprecedented. To say otherwise proves you don’t care about abject reality. Just you perception.
Or he's just an extreme troll. Remember, he once accused No-vax of taking PEDs to sustain that streak you just, correctly, pointed to. Now, he says age isn't an issue because No-vax takes extremely good care of himself, without seeing the contradiction. No-vax does take extremely good care of himself, which includes refusing the vaccine. Dude is iconic.
To respond to both of you:
1). Chokervic definitely took PEDs lol. All the top tennis guys do. Testing is a joke on the circuit.
2) I am comparing Chokervic to his previous efforts not to his competition, which got older (or retired) with no newcomers to challenge him post COVID. Anyone with an eye for tennis can see Chokervic is just not the same player he was post COVID. Does he still win? Sure – because the talent pool is thin now.
Surely we can do better than blindly counting titles. Or does your knowledge of tennis come only from Grand Slam tables on wikipedia?
I think 3-4 vaccinations and Omciron infection is almost as good as natural immunity and Omicron infection, but also not without widely adverse impacts and also, largely, unnecessary for most of the population. I repeat, it's a shame for you the virus wasn't more deadly, that the vaccines weren't better at both preventing infection and stopping spread after 1-2 shots, tops, and that you didn't figure this out much sooner as we all did.
Certainly is a strong word with absolutely nothing to back it up. But it doesn't matter, Rodgers was correct, he was immunized.
So if you think the vaccines worked similar to natural immunity then you have to agree they saved millions of lives and prevented many more severe cases and hospitalizations.
Yet you think they are bad.
I realize you just simply want the debate even as you think you already have the answer and that's the end of it. It think the vaccines did not provoke nearly as broad and all-encompassing immunity as natural immunity. I think they actually didn't work very well in terms of preventing spread, even though we were told they did, only then for our highest authorities to have to backpedal. I think, count it, three injections prevented more severe outcomes than otherwise happened in the - most susceptible- groups. So, no, I don't think they are necessarily bad or killed 17 million people, but, then again, I've never argued that.
I think they were unnecessary for most groups and caused adverse reactions in millions of people who didn't need them, including death. Nothing you will ever say or post will convince me or anyone else otherwise. It just won't. I'm very happy with my decision, like No-vax.
You ignored it because you can’t obfuscate his track record. He’s won 8 of the last 17 grand slam titles since 2020. Despite being prevented from playing two that he likely would have won. I mean only 8 players in the modern era have won that many titles. He was approaching 33 years old as this stretch started. Aside from Nadal and Federer the only person older than 32 to win a title in 52 years was Andre Agassi, which was shocking at the time. His run of championships at his age is unprecedented. To say otherwise proves you don’t care about abject reality. Just you perception.
Or he's just an extreme troll. Remember, he once accused No-vax of taking PEDs to sustain that streak you just, correctly, pointed to. Now, he says age isn't an issue because No-vax takes extremely good care of himself, without seeing the contradiction. No-vax does take extremely good care of himself, which includes refusing the vaccine. Dude is iconic.
Rafa on the other hand has fallen off the face of the Earth since he got the shots. He’s now ranked 648. I’m sure he regrets getting the shots and boosters. It effectively ended his tennis career. Sad.
Are you merely on the spectrum or deliberately dense? I'm serious?
No-vax was no better than 2nd (French) and 4th round (US Open) in 2019. He was no better than 4th round (Australian) and quarterfinal (French) in 2018. Pre-Covid. Yet he made the 2024 semifinal at the Australian at almost 37 years old. How does he go from 4th round in 2018 to semifinal in 2024? Because he choked because he wasn't vaccinated? Lol. This is why nobody listens to you except like two people. Which chaps your fanny.
So if you think the vaccines worked similar to natural immunity then you have to agree they saved millions of lives and prevented many more severe cases and hospitalizations.
Yet you think they are bad.
I realize you just simply want the debate even as you think you already have the answer and that's the end of it. It think the vaccines did not provoke nearly as broad and all-encompassing immunity as natural immunity. I think they actually didn't work very well in terms of preventing spread, even though we were told they did, only then for our highest authorities to have to backpedal. I think, count it, three injections prevented more severe outcomes than otherwise happened in the - most susceptible- groups. So, no, I don't think they are necessarily bad or killed 17 million people, but, then again, I've never argued that.
I think they were unnecessary for most groups and caused adverse reactions in millions of people who didn't need them, including death. Nothing you will ever say or post will convince me or anyone else otherwise. It just won't. I'm very happy with my decision, like No-vax.
Rodgers is young, damn it!
Think of the millions of lives lost simply because people were told that if they got the vaccine they wouldn’t infect others or contract the disease. Millions died because of this. I’d put the death toll at 350 million minimum. Vaxtards are responsible for killing at least 350 million people in the US. 👎
I realize you just simply want the debate even as you think you already have the answer and that's the end of it. It think the vaccines did not provoke nearly as broad and all-encompassing immunity as natural immunity. I think they actually didn't work very well in terms of preventing spread, even though we were told they did, only then for our highest authorities to have to backpedal. I think, count it, three injections prevented more severe outcomes than otherwise happened in the - most susceptible- groups. So, no, I don't think they are necessarily bad or killed 17 million people, but, then again, I've never argued that.
I think they were unnecessary for most groups and caused adverse reactions in millions of people who didn't need them, including death. Nothing you will ever say or post will convince me or anyone else otherwise. It just won't. I'm very happy with my decision, like No-vax.
Rodgers is young, damn it!
1) They did work to prevent spread until the strain evolved. After Delta, but especially Omicron, emerged, nothing prevented mild symptomatic disease very well. Not the vaccines nor 'natural immunity.'
2) Nobody 'backpedaled.' The vaccines were highly effective at preventing spread pre Omicron. This is pretty basic stuff.
3) Not sure why it's a big deal that it took three doses to get max efficacy – many vaccines require ~3 doses to properly train the immune system.
4) The data clearly show that the vaccine prevented deaths, severe disease, mild disease, missed work, and medium-to-long term effects at a rate far, far, far higher than comparably serious side effects from the vaccine.
Were there serious issues, and even a few deaths? (Anaphylaxis) Yes. Just like any effective drug they are not perfectly safe. The calculus of risk:benefit for all groups was highly in favor the vaccine.
Remember, the vaccine doesn't have to prevent death for it to be worth it. A college running turning 6 weeks of respiratory issues into a mild 1 week cold thanks to the vaccine is a huge quality of life improvement.
In all, it sounds like you agree the vaccine worked, saved lives, and kept millions of out the hospital. You're upset because people were convinced to take it even though they were at low risk of dying from COVID. The analysis requires a tiny bit of extra nuance (namely: dying of COVID is not the only bad thing) that you are unwilling to wrap your head around. (Need I mention a certain study from Sweden?) Fair enough. Carry on, sir!
I realize you just simply want the debate even as you think you already have the answer and that's the end of it. It think the vaccines did not provoke nearly as broad and all-encompassing immunity as natural immunity. I think they actually didn't work very well in terms of preventing spread, even though we were told they did, only then for our highest authorities to have to backpedal. I think, count it, three injections prevented more severe outcomes than otherwise happened in the - most susceptible- groups. So, no, I don't think they are necessarily bad or killed 17 million people, but, then again, I've never argued that.
I think they were unnecessary for most groups and caused adverse reactions in millions of people who didn't need them, including death. Nothing you will ever say or post will convince me or anyone else otherwise. It just won't. I'm very happy with my decision, like No-vax.
Rodgers is young, damn it!
Think of the millions of lives lost simply because people were told that if they got the vaccine they wouldn’t infect others or contract the disease. Millions died because of this. I’d put the death toll at 350 million minimum. Vaxtards are responsible for killing at least 350 million people in the US. 👎
This is just wrong. By the time sterilizing immunity waned from the vaccine it had waned for all other forms of immunity. Strain evolution is the issue, not an issues with the vaccine (or it's inferior cousin 'natural immunity').
Are you merely on the spectrum or deliberately dense? I'm serious?
No-vax was no better than 2nd (French) and 4th round (US Open) in 2019. He was no better than 4th round (Australian) and quarterfinal (French) in 2018. Pre-Covid. Yet he made the 2024 semifinal at the Australian at almost 37 years old. How does he go from 4th round in 2018 to semifinal in 2024? Because he choked because he wasn't vaccinated? Lol. This is why nobody listens to you except like two people. Which chaps your fanny.
Rodgers isn't really immunized, damn it!
Again, if I wanted to converse with a Wikipedia table I'd feed it into chatGPT. Watch the matches. See the player. It's obvious.
Think of the millions of lives lost simply because people were told that if they got the vaccine they wouldn’t infect others or contract the disease. Millions died because of this. I’d put the death toll at 350 million minimum. Vaxtards are responsible for killing at least 350 million people in the US. 👎
This is just wrong. By the time sterilizing immunity waned from the vaccine it had waned for all other forms of immunity. Strain evolution is the issue, not an issues with the vaccine (or it's inferior cousin 'natural immunity').
350 million dead and you joke about it? Disgusting. 👎 Even for you.
Are you merely on the spectrum or deliberately dense? I'm serious?
No-vax was no better than 2nd (French) and 4th round (US Open) in 2019. He was no better than 4th round (Australian) and quarterfinal (French) in 2018. Pre-Covid. Yet he made the 2024 semifinal at the Australian at almost 37 years old. How does he go from 4th round in 2018 to semifinal in 2024? Because he choked because he wasn't vaccinated? Lol. This is why nobody listens to you except like two people. Which chaps your fanny.
Rodgers isn't really immunized, damn it!
Again, if I wanted to converse with a Wikipedia table I'd feed it into chatGPT. Watch the matches. See the player. It's obvious.
I realize you just simply want the debate even as you think you already have the answer and that's the end of it. It think the vaccines did not provoke nearly as broad and all-encompassing immunity as natural immunity. I think they actually didn't work very well in terms of preventing spread, even though we were told they did, only then for our highest authorities to have to backpedal. I think, count it, three injections prevented more severe outcomes than otherwise happened in the - most susceptible- groups. So, no, I don't think they are necessarily bad or killed 17 million people, but, then again, I've never argued that.
I think they were unnecessary for most groups and caused adverse reactions in millions of people who didn't need them, including death. Nothing you will ever say or post will convince me or anyone else otherwise. It just won't. I'm very happy with my decision, like No-vax.
Rodgers is young, damn it!
1) They did work to prevent spread until the strain evolved. After Delta, but especially Omicron, emerged, nothing prevented mild symptomatic disease very well. Not the vaccines nor 'natural immunity.'
2) Nobody 'backpedaled.' The vaccines were highly effective at preventing spread pre Omicron. This is pretty basic stuff.
3) Not sure why it's a big deal that it took three doses to get max efficacy – many vaccines require ~3 doses to properly train the immune system.
4) The data clearly show that the vaccine prevented deaths, severe disease, mild disease, missed work, and medium-to-long term effects at a rate far, far, far higher than comparably serious side effects from the vaccine.
Were there serious issues, and even a few deaths? (Anaphylaxis) Yes. Just like any effective drug they are not perfectly safe. The calculus of risk:benefit for all groups was highly in favor the vaccine.
Remember, the vaccine doesn't have to prevent death for it to be worth it. A college running turning 6 weeks of respiratory issues into a mild 1 week cold thanks to the vaccine is a huge quality of life improvement.
In all, it sounds like you agree the vaccine worked, saved lives, and kept millions of out the hospital. You're upset because people were convinced to take it even though they were at low risk of dying from COVID. The analysis requires a tiny bit of extra nuance (namely: dying of COVID is not the only bad thing) that you are unwilling to wrap your head around. (Need I mention a certain study from Sweden?) Fair enough. Carry on, sir!
“Ahhhhhhh!!!! It does confirm my bias!!!! Ahhhhhhhh!!!!” 😂
You have a much better chance when you stick to Chokervic. 👏