Sunday Mail Has More Details on Paula's Blood Values and Off Scores + News She'll Put up £1m for an MRI lie detector

rjm33 wrote:

Hey Fred!

...Did you enjoy the conspiracy theory story?...

I liked all the coincidences.

Then I realized how corrupt life is, and how all this stuff is no different than what's happening in the real world every day.

rjm33 wrote:

.......Go Jo Pavey!!!.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAVji5hK7-E

......Hey Fred......

............Do you think you could get me Jo Pavey's phone number?........

Sure, Tel 0044 207935 8000

Autologous!...

Renato has known Rita Jeptoo and her coach Claudio Berardelli for years.

Frederico Rosa had to terminate Claudio's contract!!!

http://athleticsillustrated.com/editorial/claudio-berardelli-has-contract-terminated-in-light-of-more-kenyan-doping/

and here are some other athletes managed by Rosa: Stanley Biwott, Asbel Kiprop, Bedan Karoki, and Paul Tanui.

As the story moves across the world... to the Rotterdam marathon in the Netherlands tomorrow... let's not forget manager Jos Hermens from the Netherlands...with a past connection to Operation Puerto:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics-claims-over-a-doping-network-are-crazy-says-hermens-425356.html

Jos Hermens has managed: Haile Gebrselassie, Kenenisa Bekele, Geoffrey Kamworor, Eliud Kipchoge, Florence Kiplagat, Viola Kibiwot, Faith Kipyegon, Sifan Hassan, Taoufik Makhloufi, and Abeba Aregawi -1500m world champion in 2013 (meldonium positive in 2016).

http://athleticsillustrated.com/editorial/jos-hermens-i-have-never-been-involved-or-assisted-any-athlete-at-anytime-to-dope/

Also from the Netherlands is manager Gerard Van De Veen who is the manager for Geoffrey Mutai, Dennis Kimetto, and Wilson Kipsang.

.....hmmm.....nothing to see here...move along now.......

... and one more on EPO use in the Netherlands going all the way back to 1987...since people from the Netherlands are called Dutch...

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/05/19/us/stamina-building-drug-linked-to-athletes-deaths.html

pop pop...

Looking at these Italian manager and Dutch manager running camps in Kenya is starting to look very similar to Italian and Dutch cycling teams...

...with the extra advantage of much less testing for doping in Kenya or Ethiopia!

Does this picture look at all familiar to you?

Martin Lel was coached by Claudio Berardelli and managed by Frederico Rosa.

Paul Tergat and Sammy Wanjiru were managed by Frederico Rosa.

Emmanuel Mutai 2:03:13 has manager Michel Boeting..from the Netherlands.

Stephen Kiprotich...the 2012 Olympic champion from Uganda... is managed by Jos Hermens.

Abel Kirui...coached by Renato Canova...has manager Jos Hermens.

It looks like the list of all time greats from Kenyan and Ethiopian distance running are all managed by either:

... Jos Hermens from the Netherlands... Gerard Van De Veen from the Netherlands...Michel Boeting from the Netherlands...

...or Frederico Rosa from Italy.

Why are the runners of these managers so much more successful... than the managers in the rest of the world?

Is there a magic formula that is only from the Netherlands... and Italy?

...This must be just another coincidence...

Careful, I think everyone is getting tired of me repeating the same things.Context is the many things not in the "leaked" blood database: doping control forms, recent training and medical history of the athlete, post-interviews with the athlete if necessary, documents detailing collection, transportation, storage, analysis, equipment calibration, rule changes, suspicion threshold changes, expertise in the anti-doping science and mathematics, etc.I mean the public needs more context before being able to move beyond speculation, allegations, and hypothesis. They need it to give weight to any analysis. Otherwise even the most sophisticated arm-chair analysis is conditional: "if we assume ..., then ..."The Ashenden/Parisotto allegations, were based on a preliminary analysis of an incomplete blood database, lacking urine test data, and completely lacking the aforementioned context. That is why they failed.The three organizations (IAAF, UKAD, and WADA) possess both the expertise and the access to the context to move from hypothesis to conclusions. They have investigated the media allegations, and offered their statements.The public, still unarmed with context, must rely on faith: accept the conclusions in good faith, or respond with new, ever increasing, allegations of bad faith.

Yup yup wrote:

Rekrunner- tell me again what you mean when you say you agree we need more context but then come back and say three independent groups reviewed, cleared, and moved on.

I viewed this as more an attack on irresponsible journalism, then a defense of Paula.The focus on one individual British athlete started with the UK media, not the IAAF.

DHT123 wrote:

...

I can't understand why a supposedly neutral organisation should be coming to an almost foaming-at-the-mouth defence of an individual athlete.

...

This fact would prompt me to re-evaluate my faith in EPO, and reassess its role in women's elite marathon performance.

cleans wrote:

janshr khan wrote:

I venture that the majority of people from either camp who have followed the story, picked up the vibe and made a value judgement based on what has been presented will now be firmly in the suspicious camp.

The fact that not a single EPO fiend has ever got within three minutes - yes, THREE minutes - of Paula's WR time is cause enough for suspicion, without the borderline blood scores and ever-changing cover stories.

Still the GOAT though, as she was playing the Russians at their own game and levelling the playing field.

rekrunner wrote:

This fact would prompt me to re-evaluate my faith in EPO, and reassess its role in women's elite marathon performance.

But there is also the fact that the Russians dominated everyone else, aside from Paula (who in turn dominated the Russians) and some East Africans (who may have genetic advantages, and ran practically the same times as the Russians).

Serious questions to which I don't know the answer:

If it weren't for the doping, why were the Russian female marathoners so much better than the American/British/French/German... ones?

On the other hand, why were the Russian male marathoners not better than the American/British/French/German... ones? Could the Russians only figure out how to constructively dope the female long distance runners?

What are the odds that a manager... that nobody has ever heard of from the Netherlands... named Gerard Van De Veen.. has three runners this good that he manages?

1) Dennis Kimetto- 2:02:57, 2:03:45, 2:04:16

2) Wilson Kipsang- 2:03:23, 2:03:42, 2:04, etc.

3) Geoffrey Mutai- 2:03:02, 2:04:15, 2:05:06 at NYC

4) and another manager from the Netherlands named Michel Boeting is manager of Emmanuel Mutai at 2:03:13.

That is a total of 6 2:03 marathons by 4 Kenyan runners with managers from the Netherlands!!!....that are not named Jos Hermens!...

WOW!

and one more... to make it 7 2:03 marathons associated with managers from the Netherlands!!!..

Emmanuel Mutai also ran 2:03:52 behind Kimetto's 2:03:45 at Chicago 2013.

How do you like this coincidence???

rekrunner wrote:

Careful, I think everyone is getting tired of me repeating the same things.

Context is the many things not in the "leaked" blood database: doping control forms, recent training and medical history of the athlete, post-interviews with the athlete if necessary, documents detailing collection, transportation, storage, analysis, equipment calibration, rule changes, suspicion threshold changes, expertise in the anti-doping science and mathematics, etc.

I mean the public needs more context before being able to move beyond speculation, allegations, and hypothesis. They need it to give weight to any analysis. Otherwise even the most sophisticated arm-chair analysis is conditional: "if we assume ..., then ..."

The Ashenden/Parisotto allegations, were based on a preliminary analysis of an incomplete blood database, lacking urine test data, and completely lacking the aforementioned context. That is why they failed.

You are merely parroting the athletes claims of various extenuating circumstances

The more plausible and logical explanation is that the expert Ashenden has concluded that the data cannot be innocently explained by any additional context, hence the 1-1000 .

rjm33 wrote:

and one more... to make it 7 2:03 marathons associated with managers from the Netherlands!!!..

Emmanuel Mutai also ran 2:03:52 behind Kimetto's 2:03:45 at Chicago 2013.

How do you like this coincidence???

I wouldn't read too much into this.

We do know that jos hermens has connections to Spanish blood doping doctors

Are we to presume that he didn't send bekele and geb to these doctors as blood doping has no effect on them. And they are able to beat doped athletes cleanly.

I think not

rjm33 wrote:

Autologous!...

Renato has known Rita Jeptoo and her coach Claudio Berardelli for years.

Frederico Rosa had to terminate Claudio's contract!!!

http://athleticsillustrated.com/editorial/claudio-berardelli-has-contract-terminated-in-light-of-more-kenyan-doping/

and here are some other athletes managed by Rosa: Stanley Biwott, Asbel Kiprop, Bedan Karoki, and Paul Tanui.

Renato coached Rita Jeptoo earlier in her career.

Rita ran 2:23 working with Renato, and even stayed at his house in Italy.

Renato claimed that Jeptoo could eventually run 2:18 clean off training alone,

but it never happened that way.

How much faster was she with the EPO, and how much faster was the 2:18 Russian by taking EPO?

All of the Spanish marathoners were on epo

They got down to 2-06/2-07

IAAF loves Paula. Coe himself declared Paula never tested positive. Why? Who knows!