This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
There are fewer people participating on the contaminated mRNA jab experiment. The pool of vulnerable people was reduced by lockdowns, dangerous jabs, "covid" and medical care during 2020. The fewer people taking the jabs and the pull forward effect will of course reduce the excess deaths, at least for a time. That's just common sense.
The pro-mRNA drug argument was destroyed a while ago when the gold-standard randomized controlled trials showed no benefit. We're just left with public relations in the form of biased observational studies.
It is true that not everyone dies or gets seriously ill shortly after taking an mRNA drug (of course!). Since there are no long-term studies any plenty of independent scientists warning about various serious long-term effects, I suspect that is one of several reasons why fewer are taking these jabs.
Trust in public health and people running the healthcare system is poor and has declined drastically over the last 40 years, only to have a somewhat partisan split recently as shown in the charts in the study linked below. More public relations, attacks on independent researchers and doctors and more poor studies and fabricated CDC data will only continue to destroy public trust over time (which I assume is your secret agenda) :-)
1) The vaccine deaths already happened, but doctors, the CDC, and global scientists conspired to hide them.
2) Because the vaccines work so well (wait I mean because they kill people) there is less demand for them, and a smaller vulnerable population, so unfortunately no future data will show vaccine deaths ...
So I guess we just have to take your work for it! Oh well!
Yes, we generally require our debaters to have testable hypothesis, but I supposed we can make an exception here.
Anyway let's make our friend register a prediction because his post is contradictory:
1) Excess deaths stay low because nobody is taking the secretly deadly vaccine anymore, and apparently they kill in the short term (in the few years the mRNA vaxes have been on the market)
2) Excess deaths will increase because "plenty of independent scientists warning about various serious long-term effects" and these will kill people
Convenient to claim both sides of an effect as supporting your view, but we call that a 'contradiction' and it means you haven't developed a coherent argument.
P.S. I direct you to Prof. Morris' excellent post explaining why all-cause mortality was not an appropriate readout for the mRNA vax trials:
I have seen numerous people claim that the placebo-controlled, phase 3 vaccine trials that used symptomatic infections as the primary endpoint should have used "all cause deaths" to demonstrate that the vaccines reduced all-c...
Some useful and fun videos below, some from independent scientists. RCT trials are conducted all of the time, despite what Morris says. What was conducted showed no benefit for mRNA drugs and the manufacturer stopped it early. That's there own fault.
Unlike some, I don't work for the Psychic Hotline, so I can't possibly know what percentage of people will continue to take the contaminate mRNA drugs or a new, toxic drug for "Disease X," or whether there will be more lockdowns or how long it would take to see increasing "turbo cancer" deaths from the mRNA drugs, etc. Anyone who says they can predict excess death this year, next year, etc. is just guessing (obviously).
A few more of other interesting videos:
BREAKING Lead author of peer reviewed research re analysing Pfizer and moderna trials on mRNA VACCINE .Joseph Fraiman calls for IMMEDIATE suspension of jabs due to serious harm. "We have CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE that the vaccines are inducing sudden cardiac DEATH pic.twitter.com/iCH3VeZO3g
Pfizer’s safety database shows that more than half of the 458 pregnant cases reported adverse reactions to the COVID-19 vaccine, including spontaneous abortion. pic.twitter.com/vIPgeXhZzk
🚩 Josh Guetzkow & Retsef Levi on How the Version of the COVID Vaccine That Was Rolled Out to the World Was Only Tested on 252 People
"They only tested one lot of Process 2 on 252 people...The Emergency Use Authorization, in which we decided to give it to billions of people… pic.twitter.com/s9aubJwxkT
🚩 Josh Guetzkow & Retsef Levi on How the Version of the COVID Vaccine That Was Rolled Out to the World Was Only Tested on 252 People
"They only tested one lot of Process 2 on 252 people...The Emergency Use Authorization, in which we decided to give it to billions of people… pic.twitter.com/s9aubJwxkT
(pfizer trials: few were given contaminated version rolled out to general population)
Dr Naomi Wolf ♦️ Heart Damage
« "Pfizer was secretly injecting 5 to 11 year olds and 12 to 15 year olds with the injection, one group with the injection to check traponin levels, which is Heart Damage"
Some useful and fun videos below, some from independent scientists. RCT trials are conducted all of the time, despite what Morris says. What was conducted showed no benefit for mRNA drugs and the manufacturer stopped it early. That's there own fault.
This is clinical grade delusion here, or just willfully missing the point of RCTs vs. careful observational analysis. I get that the argument is something like "MORE RCTs are needed to confirmed the effects I am skeptical for, but low-power observational data is all that's needed to support my skepticisms..." but come on man... a little self-awareness?
Anyway - I will not watch videos. It's a massive waste of time and an indicator that the creator is in for the money (ad revenue) vs. the goal of disseminating accurate info (manuscripts, even self-published).
Some useful and fun videos below, some from independent scientists. RCT trials are conducted all of the time, despite what Morris says. What was conducted showed no benefit for mRNA drugs and the manufacturer stopped it early. That's there own fault.
This is clinical grade delusion here, or just willfully missing the point of RCTs vs. careful observational analysis. I get that the argument is something like "MORE RCTs are needed to confirmed the effects I am skeptical for, but low-power observational data is all that's needed to support my skepticisms..." but come on man... a little self-awareness?
Anyway - I will not watch videos. It's a massive waste of time and an indicator that the creator is in for the money (ad revenue) vs. the goal of disseminating accurate info (manuscripts, even self-published).
“Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. It does not confirm my bias. Ahhhhhhhhhh.”
Who would have thought that would be your response. 🤦♂️
This is clinical grade delusion here, or just willfully missing the point of RCTs vs. careful observational analysis. I get that the argument is something like "MORE RCTs are needed to confirmed the effects I am skeptical for, but low-power observational data is all that's needed to support my skepticisms..." but come on man... a little self-awareness?
Anyway - I will not watch videos. It's a massive waste of time and an indicator that the creator is in for the money (ad revenue) vs. the goal of disseminating accurate info (manuscripts, even self-published).
“Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. It does not confirm my bias. Ahhhhhhhhhh.”
Who would have thought that would be your response. 🤦♂️
Ok help me out. Point out the exact evidence he provided.
“Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. It does not confirm my bias. Ahhhhhhhhhh.”
Who would have thought that would be your response. 🤦♂️
Ok help me out. Point out the exact evidence he provided.
Not certain what you're looking for, but one of these videos may have the evidence you need (or not):
BREAKING: BBC Parliament
‘The covid mRNA vaccine is top of the list in the hierarchy of causes of excess cardiovascular deaths until proven otherwise. Those that ignore these cold hard facts are either unaware of the evidence, wilfully blind or lack a conscience’ @elonmuskpic.twitter.com/dzhjDBLD2P
🚨🚨🚨 Dr Charles Hoffe explains why the #Covid#Vaccine is a catastrophic failure and actually makes you more vulnerable to catching #COVID than a #Unvaccinated person :
The evidence that COVID-19 shots are making an entire generation infertile while killing unborn children still in the womb continues to pour in. Last week, Senator Ron Johnson hosted a conference in W
Attorney Thomas Renz_ We Got Them. Fact Check This!; All New Whistleblower Info Attorney Thomas Renz Releases Stunning Data from Never Before Seen Vaccine Injury/Death Tracking System. Thanks to a Whi
Joe Rogan: Not about the science, but the most listened to podcast in the world (clip):
👀 Joe Rogan & Eddie Bravo on Why the COVID Jabs Are Not Being Pulled
“How many people do you know that got f*cked up from the vaccine personally? I know quite a few…Imagine something that has as many people that know people that got f*cked up by it as this, and it’s not… pic.twitter.com/LJNz3VQ5zP
Dr. John Rengen Virapen, former Eli Lilly & Co executive who after 35 years of service decided to quit and speak out about Big Pharma's method for profit and...
Some useful and fun videos below, some from independent scientists. RCT trials are conducted all of the time, despite what Morris says. What was conducted showed no benefit for mRNA drugs and the manufacturer stopped it early. That's there own fault.
This is clinical grade delusion here, or just willfully missing the point of RCTs vs. careful observational analysis. I get that the argument is something like "MORE RCTs are needed to confirmed the effects I am skeptical for, but low-power observational data is all that's needed to support my skepticisms..." but come on man... a little self-awareness?
Anyway - I will not watch videos. It's a massive waste of time and an indicator that the creator is in for the money (ad revenue) vs. the goal of disseminating accurate info (manuscripts, even self-published).
Very true. Video is far less information dense than text and use exclusively for entertainment or to hide a paucity of evidence. Inappropriate for this kind of debate.
All we have to do is look at high-quality epidemiological data to get to the truth — COVID-19 vaccines aren’t preventing COVID or its transmission, and they aren’t preventing severe illness or death.
Information on 30 million adults in California and New York, three-fourths of whom were vaccinated, were used to compare COVID hospitalization and case rates in those who were vaccinated and had no prior COVID illness, with adults who were never vaccinated but had recovered from COVID, and presumably had natural immunity.
The data were collected from June to November 2021, before the Omicron wave appeared. The Defender reported on this data two months ago:
Vaccinated Californians and New Yorkers were three times more likely to develop COVID than those who had prior immunity and were unvaccinated. Vaccinated Californians had a higher rate of hospitalizations (severe illness) than those who were unvaccinated but had prior immunity. (New York did not provide hospitalization data.) The vaccine failures in this huge study cannot be blamed on Omicron, because the data were collected during Delta.
Novak Djokovic continued his pursuit of a record-breaking 25th grand slam title with victory against Taylor Fritz in the Australian Open quarterfinals.
Information on 30 million adults in California and New York, three-fourths of whom were vaccinated, were used to compare COVID hospitalization and case rates in those who were vaccinated and had no prior COVID illness, with adults who were never vaccinated but had recovered from COVID, and presumably had natural immunity.
The data were collected from June to November 2021, before the Omicron wave appeared. The Defender reported on this data two months ago:
Vaccinated Californians and New Yorkers were three times more likely to develop COVID than those who had prior immunity and were unvaccinated. Vaccinated Californians had a higher rate of hospitalizations (severe illness) than those who were unvaccinated but had prior immunity. (New York did not provide hospitalization data.) The vaccine failures in this huge study cannot be blamed on Omicron, because the data were collected during Delta.
Heads down everyone. Snarky remarks incoming. Or at least a “Ahhhhhh!!! It doesn’t confirm my bias. Ahhhhhh!!!”
Information on 30 million adults in California and New York, three-fourths of whom were vaccinated, were used to compare COVID hospitalization and case rates in those who were vaccinated and had no prior COVID illness, with adults who were never vaccinated but had recovered from COVID, and presumably had natural immunity.
The data were collected from June to November 2021, before the Omicron wave appeared. The Defender reported on this data two months ago:
Vaccinated Californians and New Yorkers were three times more likely to develop COVID than those who had prior immunity and were unvaccinated. Vaccinated Californians had a higher rate of hospitalizations (severe illness) than those who were unvaccinated but had prior immunity. (New York did not provide hospitalization data.) The vaccine failures in this huge study cannot be blamed on Omicron, because the data were collected during Delta.
Heads down everyone. Snarky remarks incoming. Or at least a “Ahhhhhh!!! It doesn’t confirm my bias. Ahhhhhh!!!”
Ok help me out. Point out the exact evidence he provided.
Information on 30 million adults in California and New York, three-fourths of whom were vaccinated, were used to compare COVID hospitalization and case rates in those who were vaccinated and had no prior COVID illness, with adults who were never vaccinated but had recovered from COVID, and presumably had natural immunity.
The data were collected from June to November 2021, before the Omicron wave appeared. The Defender reported on this data two months ago:
Vaccinated Californians and New Yorkers were three times more likely to develop COVID than those who had prior immunity and were unvaccinated. Vaccinated Californians had a higher rate of hospitalizations (severe illness) than those who were unvaccinated but had prior immunity. (New York did not provide hospitalization data.) The vaccine failures in this huge study cannot be blamed on Omicron, because the data were collected during Delta.
HaHaHa this Delta wave data was discussed two years ago! God you’re stupid. Its composition effects from the cohort sizes but you’ve never shown any desire to learn statistics so I will not expect any change. Remember how twoggle insisted that the myocarditis study was entirely because the cohorts were not matched well. This is about 9000 times worse. I recommend just looking at the most comparable cohorts. Then looking at data through Omicron as well.
Information on 30 million adults in California and New York, three-fourths of whom were vaccinated, were used to compare COVID hospitalization and case rates in those who were vaccinated and had no prior COVID illness, with adults who were never vaccinated but had recovered from COVID, and presumably had natural immunity.
The data were collected from June to November 2021, before the Omicron wave appeared. The Defender reported on this data two months ago:
Vaccinated Californians and New Yorkers were three times more likely to develop COVID than those who had prior immunity and were unvaccinated. Vaccinated Californians had a higher rate of hospitalizations (severe illness) than those who were unvaccinated but had prior immunity. (New York did not provide hospitalization data.) The vaccine failures in this huge study cannot be blamed on Omicron, because the data were collected during Delta.
HaHaHa this Delta wave data was discussed two years ago! God you’re stupid. Its composition effects from the cohort sizes but you’ve never shown any desire to learn statistics so I will not expect any change. Remember how twoggle insisted that the myocarditis study was entirely because the cohorts were not matched well. This is about 9000 times worse. I recommend just looking at the most comparable cohorts. Then looking at data through Omicron as well.
Don't be silly. That kind of consistency is pointless to expect from antivaxxers. All they can do is cast doubt – never provide evidence of their own.
HaHaHa this Delta wave data was discussed two years ago! God you’re stupid. Its composition effects from the cohort sizes but you’ve never shown any desire to learn statistics so I will not expect any change. Remember how twoggle insisted that the myocarditis study was entirely because the cohorts were not matched well. This is about 9000 times worse. I recommend just looking at the most comparable cohorts. Then looking at data through Omicron as well.
Don't be silly. That kind of consistency is pointless to expect from antivaxxers. All they can do is cast doubt – never provide evidence of their own.
Snarky. You know what that means.
“Ahhhhhhhh! It does not confirm my bias. Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!” 😀
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