LYDIARD OR DANIELS?

I lurk. And I have been unpacking my things form the move here last summer. Just came across tests of many, many elite runners; some from years ago -- Ron Clarke, Ryun, Lindgren, the entire 26 who were subjects in 67 & 68 and then the 1980s group -- Padilla, Salazar, Diemer, etc., from AW days. Some great training logs and test results. I tend to think (but certainly may be 180 wrong) that we are getting lots of people into running, but not sure we are getting the talent we used to. I think we have lots of motivated youngsters, but how many runners take up the sport becasue they want to be a great runner? Are many doing it in HS with hopes of a scholarship, but when that goal is realized then being a great runner is not the motivation -- the goal was achieved. I think we learn more about the physiology of training, but we may not know the optimum in terms of how much of what type and for how long. That's the art of coaching and like art itself, it takes on many faces -- many of which are worthy of praise, because there is no one way to accomplish a masterpiece. I enjoy reading and learning and appreciate what is said here and elsewhere. Live it up JD

the lousy shoes of the early 70s coupled with high mileage, got me a crippling case of plantar fascitis in both feet. cortisone shots and orthotics, eventually got me thru it, but it took 3 years, and my 'fast track days' were behind me by then; though I did the 'local road race thing', with high mileage/lydiard training, with decent results). Better shoes and avoiding cement for grass and asphalt, when possible, helped reduce the trauma on feet and knees)

HRE say:

>>I think it's interesting because a lot of us older guys, I know Hodgie-san has mantioned this, are not seeing anyone doing anything we didn't do thirty or so years ago. And of course there are others who see new things all the time.<<

Message from Dick Quax on my site:

Original Message --Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:59 AM Subject: A run down Memory Lane

Dear Bob- What a delight to come across your website! Just looking through and seeing all those blokes who have commented was great. Nobby bobbed up again I see. He has to be the world's ichi-ban cheerleader for Lydiardism. Like me, he believes that it is still the best method of training. Unfortunately, in New Zealand most young kids (and their ill informed coaches) think it is outdated. I like to point out to them that Peter Snell using this method ran 1:44.3 for 800m on a grass track in 1962 and only John Walker (also trained in the Lydiard method) amongst NZers came close to that. Considering human physiology hasn't changed significantly since we began walking upright it beats me that someone could suggest that a training method successfully employed by so many over a long period of time should suddenly become redundant. Regards Dick Quax

test

Well! I'm back from yet another unexplained banishment!

Thank you jtupper. So good to know that you lurk, and your comments here are always eagerly anticipated. Your reply was quite enlightening, as always.

Good to have you back Nobby. Good news all round!

Cheers for now

Skuj

I would hope that my question to jtupper does not indicate that I think Lydiard methods are redundant, for the reasons mentioned by Mr Quax to say the least!

But, when viewing the top 25 times all-time for the various distances, one must conclude that some significant "tweaking" has occurred. Maybe this is more mental than physical, and I suppose there are many other reasons - political, economical, geagraphical etc.

But I do not believe that training became perfected in 1962. Nor is it perfected in 2006.

Cheers

Skuj

Nobby,

It is wonderful that your father is doing well!

Sometimes we talk or write and don\\\'t know what is about to unfold. Here is mine for the day.

I am inspired to let thoughts go free at this time of the year - when life is changing for much of the northern hemisphere.

It is spring now and I am reminded of days in youth when it was a great feeling to shed winter\\\'s cold and run along the country roads and smell lawns being mowed for the first time in ages. Even the farm dogs seemed delighted to see me once again for they had missed chasing me.

I recall the first time I saw Bill Rodgers race against Steve Lacey in a 10k road race. Lacey was the elite 1500m man but he was no match for Boston Billy\\\'s surges and amazing downhill running ability. Rodgers seemed to float on air! The following week he floated to a marathon win in Australia.

I remember watching Joanie Benoit in that same race. She was a metronome, wearing a white cap, and seemed to have more concentration than anybody. I can see her short arms swinging strongly now. I saw a runner that would not be dendied.

In the spring of 1984 I watched Mark Deady show his prowess in the mile, but I was even more impressed with his handstand pushups along the side of the track by the stands. I saw my second 7 foot-2 inch high school high jump (by a guy named Smith who would win the NCAA D1 title the following year).

In John L. Parker\\\'s book \\\"Once A Runner\\\" he says something to the effect that spring brings hope to a runner. I agree with that. There is a rekindling of enthusiasm to get out the door and put in the miles. By denuement, I am reminded that some of the best \\\"training\\\" is just going for a run; anywhere. Too little is mentioned of the intrinsic value and feeling of running over one\\\'s favorite course(s) at one\\\'s own pace.

Right now, I would sure enjoy running over my favorite trails among mother natures fold. Tinman

Thanks, Tinman. How's your own health? Hope you're feeling better too.

Speaking of the spring weather, I couldn't resist but mention... Coming from frigid north of MN, we expected beautiful cherry blossoms and nice weather in Japan. Well, it was actually colder than MN and it even snowed!!! I can count, at most, a dozen times throughout my high school days in central Japan that it snowed and here we are, halfway across the globe, expecting 60s (naturally, we didn't bring snow jacket or gloves), freezing our you-know-what off. Sure, it never gets as cold in Japan as it would in MN but because of that, they don't have central heating system! So particularly in the evening or in the morning, inside the house is just as cold (in some cases, even colder!) than outside. I tell ya, we take things for granted... Most of all, space! You should see me and my mom switching places in the kichen--it's like a two rollers slowly rolling onto each other on our butt; ever so slowly, otherwise we'll knock things around. And cars and busses do pretty much the same on the street as well!

Japan is a wonderful place to visit; but sure glad to be back... My daughter said, "Dad, I can stretch my arms in the shower!"

Wonderful stories.

I'm such a fan of Japan! I've never been there, but, being a music and film freak, Japan looms very large in my world. I have dozens of "really heavy music" cds from Japanese artists, such as Merzbow, Boris, Corrupted, Hijokaiden, Acid Mothers Temple, and others. Also I love my films of Ozu, Kurosawa and Miike. What a fantastic country Japan must be!

Again, Nobby, good luck with Megan's (and Rieko's) Boston. Sorry we couldn't get together this time you were here... I know how nutty trips back home can be. I wanted to ask you a "Lydiard lacing" question, but I guess that'll have to wait for your next business trip out. Keep in touch, ne!

JR

Nobby, Great to have you back 'on deck'.

Just wanted to say that Dick Quax is right, along with this though there are quite a number of athletes back here who do run to Arthur's ideas but only do so for a year or so and because they don't get the desired 'results', feel it is not working and then start looking for 'quicker' ways to get there.

Sometimes I think that this is part of our Societal problem; The "I want it NOW!" generation.

The best thing that has happened to us is having Nick Willis and Paul Hamblyn run 1st and 4th at Melbourne in the Commonwealth Games.

Arthur would have been delighted. He told the NZ public to be patient about Nick Willis that the results would come.

As for Paul, His Training is vindication of Arthurs'ideas as well.

NZ'ers are still doing "the business". We were the only country to take on and Split the Kenyan domination.

Nobby, look at the 2004 olympics. ELG just nipped bekele. your argument is flawed. try again.\

letsspark:

I am really sorry that I misled you.

Hard to argue with someone who bases his argument on "The Matrix"...

I ma chucking this back up as there will be a lot of repetition happening on the "Lydiard .. Emperors clothes" site. Plus There maybe some more Kiwis come on board.

THE THREAD THAT WILL NOT DIE...

I have a question for you Lydiard zealots.

How come you guys never discuss how hard we have to train to be at our peak fitness?

Kim Stevenson, Nobby, HRE, last time I checked, it was a very tough sport, but you guys never emphasise this. The top runners train extreeeemely hard regularly, for a long time to achieve their levels of fitness.

True enough. But I feel that the whole deal is about consistency and even yesterday as I was running with one of my athletes and we were going over some rough hilly Bush tracks I was not feeling particularly great. I think this goes with the territory and becomes part and parcel of the "philosophy". When I finshed the run I felt just the opposite with a sense of having completed a good workout (even though I just 'go for a run' these days).

My Cardiologist calls me an "Exercise Addict". I guess when you have turned out day after day, week after week, year after year, exercise (in this case running) becomes part of you.

I liked Bill Dellingers word "Calloused". I think you become "calloused" and what many think is hard you accept as normal.

I love that "pleasantly tired" feeling particualarly when you finish !!!!!!

Hello Nobby

Have you been in Japan and got the Ma Junren training book?

What did it say?