I don't typically agree with TheAdulttheroom but I don't completely disagree with him here. Hamas is to blame for a lot of the death in Gaza. They poke a much stronger military force who think a hammer is the solution to a lot of the problems.
Sure, I would like to see Israel minimize civilian causalities. there are differences in law with intent. For example, there is first degree murder vs manslaughter.
While I don't want to see innocent Palestinians die, Israel has a right to defend itself. I am against settlements. They are a historic mistake for Israel. I want to see the end of the occupation.
Hamas wants all of Israel to be an Islamic state. They think 1948 Israel is occupied just as much as the West Bank and Gaza are occupied (Israel has removed all its settlements in Gaza), so the settlements on the West Bank are not their real issue. They intentionally target civilians. They do not seek to engage in negotiations for any realistic solution.
The Palestinians have legitimate grievances against Israel. Hamas prevents them from being addressed. Hamas power and attacks ensure Israel will continue to vote for the right wing in Israel. The left wing in Israel loses out with every Hamas attack.
The idea the Israel special forces can go in and precisely kill only Hamas is not realistic. This is not a movie.
There are crazy religious Jews who would gladly spill blood for more land. Israel needs to do a better to clamp down on them.
Trying to form a single historical narrative is impossible. 1948 is considered a disaster for Palestinians. 1948 is time of celebration for Jews who had been persecuted throughout their history and they finally had a homeland and rights of self-determination. Trying to argue if Israel should have been created is pointless at his point. It won't go anywhere.
There were Jewish groups pre-Israel that were terrorists. There have been groups like the PLO who were terrorists and were given the chance to become statesmen. I don't see Hamas being the same. I see them more like a Kach group that Israel was correct when they barred from running in elections because they were nutbags.
The answer of course is that it’s all wrong. But at least try consistency AGIP.
You're hopelessly naive.
There is ZERO moral equivalency between these deaths. They are ALL the fault of Hamas.
In a US court if you do a drive by with your kids in the car and the people you're trying to kill shoot back and kill your kids YOU get charged with their murder not the shooter.
EVERY death in Gaza is on the hands of Hamas.
But if you lock somebody in your basement for 30 years and then they kill your kids when they escape, that's on you.
EVERY death in Israel is on the hands of Israel. (I can capitalize words also!)
Those groups were formed in response to Arab aggression and British occupation.
Ah so terrorism is fine when it’s in response to occupation. Not a winning argument for you 😂
a laughy face only shows who it's all a game for. You disgrace us.
You don't invade and colonize a land, drive away the original inhabitants, and then cry about "terrorism." You surely were saying the same thing about Iraq, Afghanistan. These evils won't become virtues, no matter how hard you try. It's plain for the world to see.
it's true that I think most male Palestinians, given the chance, would kill the jews and take their land.
That's what their holy books tell them is required. And their desire for murder and jihad is not limited to Jews -- Western civilization has been confronted with that mindset for decades, perhaps only fully comprehending the danger and extent of the Islamic jihad on 9/11/01. That war was never ended properly and it goes on every day, whether or not our memories of it have faded or our whether or not our political impulses intrude. We are dealing with a mentality and culture that has absolutely no interest in Western, democratic ideas like equity, fairness, freedom, "live and let live," and dialogue. They want to kill you because you are an infidel, and given opportunities, some of them will do so and the rest will applaud.
Who educated you on Islam's holy books? Netanyahu?
There is ZERO moral equivalency between these deaths. They are ALL the fault of Hamas.
In a US court if you do a drive by with your kids in the car and the people you're trying to kill shoot back and kill your kids YOU get charged with their murder not the shooter.
EVERY death in Gaza is on the hands of Hamas.
But if you lock somebody in your basement for 30 years and then they kill your kids when they escape, that's on you.
EVERY death in Israel is on the hands of Israel. (I can capitalize words also!)
Your analogy is idiotic.
Does your basement have a door that leads to Egypt?
Palestinians CHOOSE to be "refugees" so they can claim permanent victim status.
If you start and lose multiple wars because you don't the religion of the family that moved in next door you're not a victim you're an @sshole.
SMH....ask yourself how is it that Israel controls the flow of water, electricity and goods that pass between the electric fence and wall they built to keep Palestinians in the Gaza?
Go read up on all the battles and conflicts that have happened in the last 75 years.
Ask yourself why Israelis have continued to take land and call themselves "settlers" and not invaders. Israel has murdered tens of thousands. You don't even know what happened in 2021 in Gaza about the thousands that the Israeli killed on the streets of Gaza.
This story of Israel being wronged is the same damn story that invaders always say when the land they invaded and the people they subjugate fight back. They don't like the manner in which they fought back, evrn though they did the same thing in invading the land. They reduce them to savages, barbarians and the last 50 years....terrorists.
May I remind everyone that the United States called Nelson Mandela and the ANC terrorists. They would call Native Americans today terrorists for their actions when they fought back agaisnt their oppressors.
If anyone in their right and sane mind doesn't see what happened to the Palestinians as oppressive....then that word doesn't exist.
What we are witnessing and have witnessed has been going on forever and it's not right.
Palestinians have fired MILLIONS of mortars and rockets at Israeli civilians in the last 75 years.
No one on earth but the Jews would be expected to put up with this.
Any legitimate grievance Palestinians had over land disputes has been completely negated by 75+ years of animal behavior.
You sound like the white settlers in America who were upset because the Native Americans shot arrows back at the so called "settlers".
For every aggression by Palestinians against the Israel settlers on their land that broke every agreement for the last 75 years, Israel has done 20x more.
In Gaza, aid agencies are warning that overcrowded hospitals only have 3 or 4 more days worth of fuel for their generators - and without electricity, treatin...
Palestinians have fired MILLIONS of mortars and rockets at Israeli civilians in the last 75 years.
No one on earth but the Jews would be expected to put up with this.
Any legitimate grievance Palestinians had over land disputes has been completely negated by 75+ years of animal behavior.
You sound like the white settlers in America who were upset because the Native Americans shot arrows back at the so called "settlers".
For every aggression by Palestinians against the Israel settlers on their land that broke every agreement for the last 75 years, Israel has done 20x more.
Something is really wrong with you.
You keep forgetting you're really stupid and ignorant. Not a good combo particularly when you're as racist as you are.
Arabs have been murdering Jewish farmers for over 100 years.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about you're just siding with the Palestinians because the idiots in BLM love Hamas and you've ALWAYS just thought what you're told to think. The plantations may be gone but you are still every bit a slave.
Palestinians have fired MILLIONS of mortars and rockets at Israeli civilians in the last 75 years.
No one on earth but the Jews would be expected to put up with this.
Any legitimate grievance Palestinians had over land disputes has been completely negated by 75+ years of animal behavior.
You sound like the white settlers in America who were upset because the Native Americans shot arrows back at the so called "settlers".
For every aggression by Palestinians against the Israel settlers on their land that broke every agreement for the last 75 years, Israel has done 20x more.
Something is really wrong with you.
1) Colonial dynamics in 17-1800s aren’t really comparable to the situation today.
2) 1948 and 1967 were not cases of Israel unilaterally breaking the agreement… what??? The Arab states lost land in two full scale wars, that they were majority (at a minimum equally) complicit in starting.
The answer of course is that it’s all wrong. But at least try consistency AGIP.
none of this is easy.
the best test is the classic:
If the palestinians could do whatever they wanted, every Jew in the levant would be dead or run off the land.
if the Israelis could do whatever they wanted...there wouldn't be much fighting at all. Settlements in the West Bank might grow.
I'll take the Israeli side on this. In an imperfect world.
The UK and US bombed German cities for years and years. This is all grisly business and why war is hell.
That is not a test my friend, and is not even relevant. This is Israel vs Hamas, not Israel vs Palestinians or Israelis vs Palestinians. And those assumptions are way too flimsy to hang your hat on. The only safe assumption that can be reasonably generalized is that Palestinian and Israeli citizens want peace, but their leaders' interests aren't aligned with delivering that.
I've placed more trust on the Israeli side to govern more responsibly than Palestinian leadership but in particular under Bibi I can't say I feel so good about that. He is a corrupt POS to the bone. It's still a democracy so that's great but as a sovereign state they have plenty of blood on their hands. I've done enough military bidding of our own morally corrupt government to think twice before I give Israel or Palestine cover for killing innocent people.
It's fked all around but unquestionably it's been Palestinians dealing with the most suffering and death over the decades. As to this current mess, I would have preferred to see a more measured response from Israel. Reducing Gaza to rubble isn't even close to an effective measure, will result in a much greater civilian death toll, and will create thousands of future terrorists. Does anyone in their right mind actually believe Hamas is going down here? Does anyone think Palestinians feel responsible for what Hamas did, while they have bombs raining down on them? Israel looks like a barbarian mess here - like they need to overcompensate with the bombings and full blockade because their intelligence and leadership failed so badly.
Get the fkn Mossad to hunt down Hamas and secure their fkn border. I don't want the US financing genocide and escalation of violent conflict in the region.
The answer of course is that it’s all wrong. But at least try consistency AGIP.
You're hopelessly naive.
There is ZERO moral equivalency between these deaths. They are ALL the fault of Hamas.
In a US court if you do a drive by with your kids in the car and the people you're trying to kill shoot back and kill your kids YOU get charged with their murder not the shooter.
EVERY death in Gaza is on the hands of Hamas.
Another idiotic post from this clown called "little kid in the corner"
Dude...the Israelis literally have been kicking out Palestinians from their homes for 75 years by gunpoint, killing hundreds of thousands and have them totally surrounded in Gaza with electric fences and walls.
You have the nerve to bring up a US court and a drive by. Israel has been bombing folks in the Gaza forever, knowingly and purposely killing men, women and children. I guess you missed the thousands of pictures of dismembered dead kids in the Gaza and West Bank from bombs. I guess you missed when the Israeli military goes knocking on doors killing Palestinians in the Gaza and West Bank for 75 years
But if you lock somebody in your basement for 30 years and then they kill your kids when they escape, that's on you.
EVERY death in Israel is on the hands of Israel. (I can capitalize words also!)
Your analogy is idiotic.
Does your basement have a door that leads to Egypt?
Palestinians CHOOSE to be "refugees" so they can claim permanent victim status.
If you start and lose multiple wars because you don't the religion of the family that moved in next door you're not a victim you're an @sshole.
Yeah, I think this is probably the most real take on the situation. I've been refreshing my education on the conflict the past few days, and my initial observation then as it is now, is that the Palestinians are their own worst enemies. With each denial of compromise, they get less and less leverage relative to their outrageous demands. As a thought exercise: if the Palestinians could redo 1948, do you think they accept the original UN brokered two-state solution? Be honest.
There is ZERO moral equivalency between these deaths. They are ALL the fault of Hamas.
In a US court if you do a drive by with your kids in the car and the people you're trying to kill shoot back and kill your kids YOU get charged with their murder not the shooter.
EVERY death in Gaza is on the hands of Hamas.
Another idiotic post from this clown called "little kid in the corner"
Dude...the Israelis literally have been kicking out Palestinians from their homes for 75 years by gunpoint, killing hundreds of thousands and have them totally surrounded in Gaza with electric fences and walls.
You have the nerve to bring up a US court and a drive by. Israel has been bombing folks in the Gaza forever, knowingly and purposely killing men, women and children. I guess you missed the thousands of pictures of dismembered dead kids in the Gaza and West Bank from bombs. I guess you missed when the Israeli military goes knocking on doors killing Palestinians in the Gaza and West Bank for 75 years
GTFO
You idiots completely ignore all of the history that doesn't fit your narrative.
The entire Arab world tried to kill every Jew in the region 75 years ago and they LOST. Anything that happened after that is their own fault.
They should be thanking their false god every damn day that Israel doesn't behave like they do or they'd all be in hell right now wondering where their 72 virgins went.
Does your basement have a door that leads to Egypt?
Palestinians CHOOSE to be "refugees" so they can claim permanent victim status.
If you start and lose multiple wars because you don't the religion of the family that moved in next door you're not a victim you're an @sshole.
Yeah, I think this is probably the most real take on the situation. I've been refreshing my education on the conflict the past few days, and my initial observation then as it is now, is that the Palestinians are their own worst enemies. With each denial of compromise, they get less and less leverage relative to their outrageous demands. As a thought exercise: if the Palestinians could redo 1948, do you think they accept the original UN brokered two-state solution? Be honest.
No way. Would the Klan ever sign up for interracial marriage?
These people would rather live in rubble and drink sewer water than coexist with the Jews.
If the palestinians could do whatever they wanted, every Jew in the levant would be dead or run off the land.
if the Israelis could do whatever they wanted...there wouldn't be much fighting at all. Settlements in the West Bank might grow.
I'll take the Israeli side on this. In an imperfect world.
The UK and US bombed German cities for years and years. This is all grisly business and why war is hell.
That is not a test my friend, and is not even relevant. This is Israel vs Hamas, not Israel vs Palestinians or Israelis vs Palestinians. And those assumptions are way too flimsy to hang your hat on. The only safe assumption that can be reasonably generalized is that Palestinian and Israeli citizens want peace, but their leaders' interests aren't aligned with delivering that.
I've placed more trust on the Israeli side to govern more responsibly than Palestinian leadership but in particular under Bibi I can't say I feel so good about that. He is a corrupt POS to the bone. It's still a democracy so that's great but as a sovereign state they have plenty of blood on their hands. I've done enough military bidding of our own morally corrupt government to think twice before I give Israel or Palestine cover for killing innocent people.
It's fked all around but unquestionably it's been Palestinians dealing with the most suffering and death over the decades. As to this current mess, I would have preferred to see a more measured response from Israel. Reducing Gaza to rubble isn't even close to an effective measure, will result in a much greater civilian death toll, and will create thousands of future terrorists. Does anyone in their right mind actually believe Hamas is going down here? Does anyone think Palestinians feel responsible for what Hamas did, while they have bombs raining down on them? Israel looks like a barbarian mess here - like they need to overcompensate with the bombings and full blockade because their intelligence and leadership failed so badly.
Get the fkn Mossad to hunt down Hamas and secure their fkn border. I don't want the US financing genocide and escalation of violent conflict in the region.
not sure you are aware that jews in virtually every muslim country in the middle east were in fact run off and forced to leave, within the last 80ish years. I don't think that attitude has changed much and I'm not sure why you think it has.
I will agree that Israel messed up very very badly by not guarding their gaza border. I mean that was just total malpractice. It's all fog of war right now but if the invasion had been repelled in some way much of this would have been prevented. I hope Israeli democracy will take that into consideration when it votes.
That's what their holy books tell them is required. And their desire for murder and jihad is not limited to Jews -- Western civilization has been confronted with that mindset for decades, perhaps only fully comprehending the danger and extent of the Islamic jihad on 9/11/01. That war was never ended properly and it goes on every day, whether or not our memories of it have faded or our whether or not our political impulses intrude. We are dealing with a mentality and culture that has absolutely no interest in Western, democratic ideas like equity, fairness, freedom, "live and let live," and dialogue. They want to kill you because you are an infidel, and given opportunities, some of them will do so and the rest will applaud.
Israeli settlers killed 4 Palestinians. Then during their funeral, they shot and killed 2 more.
Is this also Hamas' fault?
The past 18 months have been the deadliest in the West Bank since the second Intifada. The Israeli settlers aren't exactly trying to avoid hurting civilians; they've been consistently attacking Palestinian villages, even though Hamas has barely any presence there.
