L L wrote:
Undone wrote:
If Dems get control they can undo the tax "cut."
It's easy to give away things and hard to take them back.
Dems cannot undo the tax cut. They can change it a bit.
This is not true at all.
L L wrote:
Undone wrote:
If Dems get control they can undo the tax "cut."
It's easy to give away things and hard to take them back.
Dems cannot undo the tax cut. They can change it a bit.
This is not true at all.
I keep seeing this thread so I thought I would try to read some of it. I had to stop before I killed myself. All I figured out is that this thread has the lowest quality posters on this board.
Did Trump just say that the media needs God more than he does?
It sounded like that when he said they need prayers more than he does.
Interesting take on prayer.
He probably should mess around with the big guy upstairs. God doesn't take too kindly to that type of arrogance.
My little glimpse into Hell wrote:
I keep seeing this thread so I thought I would try to read some of it. I had to stop before I killed myself. All I figured out is that this thread has the lowest quality posters on this board.
So you just added another check mark to the lowest quality of posters on this board. Congrats as you've contributed nothing.
L L wrote:
the m man wrote:
Obama campaigned on a fair health care plan. He lied, but it didn't affect him.
Truly, does that not bother you? AND NO, I DON'T CARE IF HE'S NOT THE CURRENT PRESIDENT, I'M ACTUALLY QUITE HAPPY ABOUT IT! Again, serious question, does that not bother you?
You are a cherry picker in every sense of the word.
Obama did everything he could to get the best plan that could get voted in.
He wanted to put in a public option. He lobbied congress very hard to get that done.
They could only get 58 or 59 senate votes for it and needed 60.
A public option would have been a big deal.
But they got something done. They opened affordable care to millions that didn't have access to it before through subsidies and medicaid expansion. And gave options through an exchange that didn't exist before.
Premiums were going up at a fast rate going onto 2009 and that rate has slowed.
It became popular over time and this Congress failed to repeal it because they couldn't come up with anything better.
And they rigged it to only need 50 senate votes and still couldn't get it done.
What bothers me is that they snuck in a mandate repeal in this tax deal that will allow young, healthy people to stop paying premiums and have older and sicker people pick up the tab in the from of higher premiums.
That doesn't bother you?
He did not. He initially said several things about the plan that were guaranteed, BEFORE he was elected. Then he changed everything afterwards. Do your own research pal, it's all out there. His initial words are on YouTube, right from his own mouth. His initial plan in writing, from his own side of the media, is laid out on google.
I give you credit for trying, but you are plenty smart enough to know the truth. His whole plan was to "get in" and after that, HIS campaign promises reversed and that was NOT because of the GOP, that is total hogwash.
Now Trump gets attacked yet Obama went back on dozens and dozens of hard important promises for 8 years. Those big promises are what got him elected. I know fools who voted for him and were pissed afterwards, but you were happy.
He lied about his plan over and over. Who do you think you're fooling?
Does it bother you to lie to yourself?
My little glimpse into Hell wrote:
I keep seeing this thread so I thought I would try to read some of it. I had to stop before I killed myself. All I figured out is that this thread has the lowest quality posters on this board.
You don't think DFF is a quality poster? Hey, where is that guy? Hope he's ok.
DFF backed down like the little b!Tchaikovsky that he is when "black runner" challenged him. Also, DFF was jam!n.
The Real M### Man wrote:
L L wrote:
Obama did everything he could to get the best plan that could get voted in.
He wanted to put in a public option. He lobbied congress very hard to get that done.
They could only get 58 or 59 senate votes for it and needed 60.
A public option would have been a big deal.
But they got something done. They opened affordable care to millions that didn't have access to it before through subsidies and medicaid expansion. And gave options through an exchange that didn't exist before.
Premiums were going up at a fast rate going onto 2009 and that rate has slowed.
It became popular over time and this Congress failed to repeal it because they couldn't come up with anything better.
And they rigged it to only need 50 senate votes and still couldn't get it done.
What bothers me is that they snuck in a mandate repeal in this tax deal that will allow young, healthy people to stop paying premiums and have older and sicker people pick up the tab in the from of higher premiums.
That doesn't bother you?
He did not. He initially said several things about the plan that were guaranteed, BEFORE he was elected. Then he changed everything afterwards. Do your own research pal, it's all out there. His initial words are on YouTube, right from his own mouth. His initial plan in writing, from his own side of the media, is laid out on google.
I give you credit for trying, but you are plenty smart enough to know the truth. His whole plan was to "get in" and after that, HIS campaign promises reversed and that was NOT because of the GOP, that is total hogwash.
Now Trump gets attacked yet Obama went back on dozens and dozens of hard important promises for 8 years. Those big promises are what got him elected. I know fools who voted for him and were pissed afterwards, but you were happy.
He lied about his plan over and over. Who do you think you're fooling?
Does it bother you to lie to yourself?
How is this lying so much as f*cking up? If you think Obama f*cked up on health then fine. But that isn't the same as lying compulsively or denying reality.
Politicians makes promises. Usually the reality falls way short for many reasons. That isn't lying it's just poor expectation management or incompetence.
So let me tell you a little something about the Constitution.
Presidents don't write laws. Senators can.
Obama was a senator and knew a little something about the law making process.
As a presidential candidate, he laid out what he wanted.
There are no guarantees of how votes will go, so he could not have made any guarantees.
They drew up the ACA based on former Republican plans hoping to get bipartisan support.
Of course they got no Republican support. Party over country.
And not all Democrats agree on the same exact path.
In the end, there were a couple of Democrat holdouts that would not vote for the public option.
So what they did is called a compromise.
Obama could not get what he wanted. But he did make speeches to the public to lobby for his wishes.
Now Trump has no law making experience - no political experience what so ever.
And he really doesn't give many details on want he wants - just that it will be terrific.
One thing Trump did campaign on was that they would get rid of the carried interest deduction.
He did not get his wish in this bill. Carried interest stayed.
I just don't recall Trump doing any public lobbying for the details he wanted.
He just wanted to sign something.
You have to pass the bill to see what is in it!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV7dDSgbaQ0
Conundrum wrote:
OLD SMTC SOB wrote:
“We have to pass the bill to see what’s in the bill”. Does this sound familiar?
ACA was passed with much transparency, analysis and debate. This tax plan, to any thinking person, reflected a travesty in the way that it was rammed through congress. Seriously congress should be ashamed.
According to Snopes (your fact checker not mine) she did say those words. The meaning of those words are interpreted differently by different people. So you link does prove she did say that. Your claim that is false is wrong.
eric a blair wrote:
OLD SMTC SOB wrote:
“We have to pass the bill to see what’s in the bill”. Does this sound familiar?
you post all matter of false and misleading material.
Just do a favor to the nation and read up on that quote eh? be a responsible part of democracy and stop lying and misleading. It's not that hard. I promise.
Pelosi meant that we, the people would understand the bill once it was passed...not that members of congress didnt' understand the bill.
https://www.snopes.com/pelosi-healthcare-pass-the-bill-to-see-what-is-in-it/
Conundrum wrote:
ACA was passed with much transparency, analysis and debate.
Not according to Obamacare architect Prof. Gruber:
"Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,” Gruber said. "And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical for the thing to pass."
0 Democrats voted for the tax cuts. You claim Democrats are better and smarter than Republicans, but they sure act the same way. Party over country! Please stop with the nonsense. The Democrat ranks are filled with cretins. Here is more nonsense to show you how dumb liberals are. Using a liberal fact checker, the claim that ACA is a Republican plan is rated as half true. This is the same rating as someone else used to claim that Nancy Pelosi did not say you must pass the ACA bill to find out what is in it. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/
L L wrote:
So let me tell you a little something about the Constitution.
Presidents don't write laws. Senators can.
Obama was a senator and knew a little something about the law making process.
As a presidential candidate, he laid out what he wanted.
There are no guarantees of how votes will go, so he could not have made any guarantees.
They drew up the ACA based on former Republican plans hoping to get bipartisan support.
Of course they got no Republican support. Party over country.
And not all Democrats agree on the same exact path.
In the end, there were a couple of Democrat holdouts that would not vote for the public option.
So what they did is called a compromise.
Obama could not get what he wanted. But he did make speeches to the public to lobby for his wishes.
Now Trump has no law making experience - no political experience what so ever.
And he really doesn't give many details on want he wants - just that it will be terrific.
One thing Trump did campaign on was that they would get rid of the carried interest deduction.
He did not get his wish in this bill. Carried interest stayed.
I just don't recall Trump doing any public lobbying for the details he wanted.
He just wanted to sign something.
Now, if you want to take Snopes word, consider this story in the Washington Post about *context* "The Democrats argue that their process to pass Obamacare was more open, but their final text was written behind closed doors." Please stop usuing Snopes and Politifact as some sort of truth.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/06/22/history-lesson-how-the-democrats-pushed-obamacare-through-the-senate/?utm_term=.6fc2f2daf895
its_baddude wrote:
According to Snopes (your fact checker not mine) she did say those words. The meaning of those words are interpreted differently by different people.
So you link does prove she did say that. Your claim that is false is wrong.
eric a blair wrote:
you post all matter of false and misleading material.
Just do a favor to the nation and read up on that quote eh? be a responsible part of democracy and stop lying and misleading. It's not that hard. I promise.
Pelosi meant that we, the people would understand the bill once it was passed...not that members of congress didnt' understand the bill.
https://www.snopes.com/pelosi-healthcare-pass-the-bill-to-see-what-is-in-it/
It is not true that liberals consistently provide well-research and vetted sources. Liberals provide biased sources (opinionated) with a liberal interpretation of facts.
Make America Great Again wrote:
I am right and u know it wrote:
I've noticed that the liberals consistently posting on this Godforsaken thread provide well-researched, well-vetted sources and speak in complete, articulate sentences. In contrast, the "conservatives" resort to grade school name-calling tactics, bullying, apples to oranges arguments, reflexively deflect to Obama/Hillary, and rely on easily disproved links and so forth to express their views.
The liberals are smarter, better grasp of subject matter, more egalitarian, are of higher character consistent with true Christianity, possess greater integrity, and conduct themselves like well-educated adults.
tl;dr American conservatives are amoral dipsh*ts.
It's exactly this kind of elitist attitude that cost you the election last year.
Forgotten men and women of America are so tired of being talked down by eggheads in a bubble.
Looks like you guys haven't learned anything from your loss.
its_baddude wrote:
According to Snopes (your fact checker not mine) she did say those words. The meaning of those words are interpreted differently by different people.
So you link does prove she did say that. Your claim that is false is wrong.
eric a blair wrote:
you post all matter of false and misleading material.
Just do a favor to the nation and read up on that quote eh? be a responsible part of democracy and stop lying and misleading. It's not that hard. I promise.
Pelosi meant that we, the people would understand the bill once it was passed...not that members of congress didnt' understand the bill.
https://www.snopes.com/pelosi-healthcare-pass-the-bill-to-see-what-is-in-it/
You pulled a quote out of context to purposely mislead (or else you were purposely mislead) The honest truth is the ACA was passed after much bipartisan debate and review of studies of how if would affect the economy
"Another metric one could use to look at legislative transparency is the extent to which the opposition party was included in the process. The ACA passed without a single Republican vote, but the contents of the bill were nonetheless made available to both parties multiple times throughout its development, as described by the New York Times:
In June and July 2009, with Democrats in charge, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over 13 days marking up the bill that became the Affordable Care Act. That September and October, the Senate Finance Committee worked on the legislation for eight days — its longest markup in two decades. It considered more than 130 amendments and held 79 roll-call votes. The full Senate debated the health care bill for 25 straight days before passing it on Dec. 24, 2009."
If you are saying this process was similar to the irresponsible way the tax plan was passed, then you are lying.
Seriously, it just wasn't the same.
Republicans in congress should be ashamed of the irresponsible manner the developed and passed the tax plan.
Conundrum wrote:
its_baddude wrote:
According to Snopes (your fact checker not mine) she did say those words. The meaning of those words are interpreted differently by different people.
So you link does prove she did say that. Your claim that is false is wrong.
You pulled a quote out of context to purposely mislead (or else you were purposely mislead) The honest truth is the ACA was passed after much bipartisan debate and review of studies of how if would affect the economy
"Another metric one could use to look at legislative transparency is the extent to which the opposition party was included in the process. The ACA passed without a single Republican vote, but the contents of the bill were nonetheless made available to both parties multiple times throughout its development, as described by the New York Times:
In June and July 2009, with Democrats in charge, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over 13 days marking up the bill that became the Affordable Care Act. That September and October, the Senate Finance Committee worked on the legislation for eight days — its longest markup in two decades. It considered more than 130 amendments and held 79 roll-call votes. The full Senate debated the health care bill for 25 straight days before passing it on Dec. 24, 2009."
If you are saying this process was similar to the irresponsible way the tax plan was passed, then you are lying.
Seriously, it just wasn't the same.
Republicans in congress should be ashamed of the irresponsible manner the developed and passed the tax plan.
YOU should be ashamed of who you voted for. It was clearly said "we have to pass it to see what's in it". That's not taking anything out of context, YOU ARE! How do you lie to yourself so easily?
Here's who you were voting for. Wow!!!! Yeah, you're real bright pal. Watch the video, it should be easy since she got your vote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGC2vg27bFIThe aga man wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
You pulled a quote out of context to purposely mislead (or else you were purposely mislead) The honest truth is the ACA was passed after much bipartisan debate and review of studies of how if would affect the economy
"Another metric one could use to look at legislative transparency is the extent to which the opposition party was included in the process. The ACA passed without a single Republican vote, but the contents of the bill were nonetheless made available to both parties multiple times throughout its development, as described by the New York Times:
In June and July 2009, with Democrats in charge, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over 13 days marking up the bill that became the Affordable Care Act. That September and October, the Senate Finance Committee worked on the legislation for eight days — its longest markup in two decades. It considered more than 130 amendments and held 79 roll-call votes. The full Senate debated the health care bill for 25 straight days before passing it on Dec. 24, 2009."
If you are saying this process was similar to the irresponsible way the tax plan was passed, then you are lying.
Seriously, it just wasn't the same.
Republicans in congress should be ashamed of the irresponsible manner the developed and passed the tax plan.
YOU should be ashamed of who you voted for. It was clearly said "we have to pass it to see what's in it". That's not taking anything out of context, YOU ARE! How do you lie to yourself so easily?
Here's who you were voting for. Wow!!!! Yeah, you're real bright pal. Watch the video, it should be easy since she got your vote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGC2vg27bFI
Let's stick to the salient point of the discussion, my contention is that the ACA was passed in a thoughtful way with open discussion between parties and careful review of studies about the economic effects of the plan. In contrast this tax plan was pushed through without opportunity for careful thought or consideration of any studies regarding its future economic impact. It was very irresponsible and the republicans should be ashamed.
If you claim both bills were passed with the same opportunity for examination and the same due diligence, then you are lying.
Is that what you really believe?
(My prediction is that you will either have no response, or divert the subject and not answer that simple question)
Interestingly I had to delete the m from m.aga to be able to make my post. I was blocked because I had the word m.aga in your title.
I have no problem with you using m.aga other than I have a higher opinion of America than you.
America IS great and it's a little annoying when people keep posting and wearing hats implying that my country is not great.
