Explosive New York Times article: Mary Cain breaks silence about NOP

There has been a lot of discussion over the years since Cain joined NOP regarding her and/or her doctor father selling their souls joining group. Essentially "I hope you realize what you are getting yourself into with Salazarr."

Alberto is one heck of a snack oil salesmen.

Also there should more women guiding and advising more women athletes.

You have to wonder what path Mary may have taken, if her parents had taken a "thanks, but no thanks" approach when Salazar called them. I don't think she would have broken all of those American Junior Records at 16 and 17, but she still probably would have qualified for World Junior Teams based on her trajectory.

But would she still be running at a high level today? I imagine based on 50 years of teenage prodigy history all we can say is Maybe.

Enough with the AlSal and Nike fiasco. AlSal should be under a full lifetime ban at very least, if not under full criminal investigation.

Nike should be banned from EVER forming or managing its own teams/training programs.

Tim L wrote:

Angus of Homewood wrote:

I’m not sure why you think grown people deciding when young people should go to war supports your assertion that 18 year olds are adults.

Absolutely. As I just wrote above, the military doesn't want thinkers - they want pawns.

Again, this will depend on the 18 year old. I was very much capable of wrestling with and thinking about these issues at 18. It depends dramatically on the individual involved.

In any event though, it's not that Salazar wanted a lean Cain that bothers me. That's neccessary at the top level. What is the issue is the way he was so militant and abusive, going as far as to berate and shame her.

I guess it fits with Salazars personality (ala the Grunewald incident and others), but its still crazy for a coach to do that. Pushing the athlete using those tactics rarely works, and being in such a negative headspace usually leads to poor results. The fact that Salazar did it with an 18 year old athlete makes it egregiously bad.

Although possibly legal sport wise, I think this is by far the worst thing I have heard about NOP/Sal. I've always thought Salazar was something of a dick...now this takes it to a new level.

Glad she got away from there, but very unfortunate Salazar was able to do so much damage to a promising running career.

Definitely would like to know where the parents/teammates were in all this.

BTC Hater wrote:

I feel like so many of the articles I’ve read about the NOP and the witch hunt over the last few years has a comment from Kara Goucher, Lauren Fleshman or on the others in that group of Nike haters, like Steve Magness. It’s getting old reading the same stuff from them. When are they gunna stop? When Nike gets taken down as a company?

That being said, much of the article isn’t brand new stuff. A lot of the stuff about NOP’s dieting and trying to get as skinny as possible has been talked about by other members of the group or speculated about on these boards.

A girl is cutting herself and you are worried about the poor NOP members being treated unfairly....okay...

Mary Cain would’ve broken down exactly the same if she had chosen to run in college. As someone who ran D1 and has dozens of female friends who did, this is the norm. Weigh ins are mandatory and many factors go into determining the range you’re supposed to be in. And yes, your diet will come change if your not making that weight. Mary refused to stand up for herself, yes she was only 17, but many college athletes are and they stand up for their best interest. She’s the worst case of a sheltered teen running star who broke when pressured.

The Parents...? wrote:

But at a certain point weight is going to come into the picture. If you're not lean, you're going to lose. At a certain point a pro coach needs to be able to discuss weight with his athletes. I am not sure when that is.

18 is young, but it is an adult. Boys can get shot in the head for the USA at 18.

This is just all so disappointing.

That weight matters isn't a secret or controversial. Diet and weight are clearly important for performance and no one really argues otherwise.

The methods Salazar used to manage weight, particularly among women athletes, are the problem. Publicly weighing people, publicly berating people, and in Kara's case, pushing off-prescription drugs to aid weight loss all go far beyond considering the importance of race-weight to performance. All of those cross lines into physical/emotional abuse.

maybe a healthy amount of weight loss for a female in her 20s improves performance

but

eat disorders and obsession over weight loss for a teenager could hurt performance?

how freakign stupid are you?

I really don't buy this story.

It's complete opposite of what other athletes say about Alberto being like father to them.

Smells fishy here

Here is a full transcript of Cain's comments.

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/11/full-transcript-mary-cain-slams-nike-and-alberto-salazar-for-her-treatment-while-part-of-the-nike-oregon-project/

Thanks for your denigrating contribution. Insults aren’t helpful. But thanks for playing.

Is that considered mansplaining too?

How about the drugs Mary This is Bull She was with Alberto since HS and she still trained with Alberto's buddy in NY and still works for him this is BULL. How about the drugs and the fact that you showed up ran world class times and and after the meets ran even faster workouts this is aint just about a system run by men its about the fact you were in a group that did drugs and it was at all cost. and yes run by NIKE who USATF allowed to buy its soul

They did drugs ! thats how they improved. and lets be clear somebody has to get BANNED Alberto didn't give himself the drugs

Woahisme wrote:

Mainly concerns the win-at-all costs approach at NOP that lead to weight loss, injuries and suicidal thoughts.

Discus

That's what it takes to be a champion. People like to pretend like you can have it your way and still be at the top of the elite game... YOU CAN'T!

Women need to be thin - rail thin and I don't want to hear about Allie Kiefer or anyone like her. I'm talking about real elites. Every truly elite athlete knows this, but doesn't talk about it until their career is over and they need a scapegoat. If you want to be a distance runner and win Olympic gold, you may have to offer up your body to do it. YOU WILL lose your period, that just comes with the territory. Even if you are consuming enough calories to maintain your training you will lose your period because your body sees the environment as inhospitable for pregnancy. Mary Cain was soft, she was young so she was allowed to be soft, but that doesn't make it someone else's fault. She said she wanted to be the best female athlete "EVER." "Ever" is a long time and to do that, Alberto was right, she needed to lose weight.

Cain's revelations are not revelations. Hassan immediately started losing weight when she joined NOP, including a breast reduction. She got faster. Hasay looked skeletal in Chicago, 2017 - she ran faster. Koko is Koko and requires no commentary, it's obvious. I don't know why people cannot get it through their heads that life isn't fair. You either have what it takes and are willing to sacrifice for it, or you don't, but don't cry about it after because you could not do the work. And yes, for a female elite, and I'm talking the truly elite, you have to be light.

Some will think this is a troll, some will argue that it's BS and I don't really care because facts are facts. Thin to win is accurate when it comes to distance runners, both male and female, it's just unfortunate that for females it often carries harsher penalties later in life. Everyone has choices.

Completely agree, there is something more to it

erik wrote:

The Parents...? wrote:

But at a certain point weight is going to come into the picture. If you're not lean, you're going to lose. At a certain point a pro coach needs to be able to discuss weight with his athletes. I am not sure when that is.

18 is young, but it is an adult. Boys can get shot in the head for the USA at 18.

This is just all so disappointing.

That weight matters isn't a secret or controversial. Diet and weight are clearly important for performance and no one really argues otherwise.

The methods Salazar used to manage weight, particularly among women athletes, are the problem. Publicly weighing people, publicly berating people, and in Kara's case, pushing off-prescription drugs to aid weight loss all go far beyond considering the importance of race-weight to performance. All of those cross lines into physical/emotional abuse.

I agree with you. I think that maybe where I am struggling is how this is starting to look like it is unique to AlSal. I think AlSal is a true maniac, I am not a fan, but the issue is larger than him. Also, I think the poor young woman was totally unfit to be in this environment and it bothers me that she was placed there in the first place.

I don't know... I don't want to blame the victim's parents. I am also not a fan of 18-year-olds going to war, so the other poster was right in his response to me.

I am just sad and upset about this. I feel so bad for Mary.

More and more shady practices are being revealed abouth this NOP, it seemed like a cult run by a guru. I am glad it has been destroyed by the scandal.

For once, the anti doping agency did what was necessary and Nike was forced to close this horror castle.

I really hope all of what has been done there will be revealed. The Mo Farah engineering was Armstrong like. I want the truth to be known fully. Every coach and the one who followed their trainings should be hunted down and scrutinized.

They knew no limits, God only know what they have actually done.

RunRaider wrote:

Cain also says here that Alberto pushed her to take prescription drugs against IAAF rules, same as is alleged by Kara Goucher.

We’re supposed to believe that Alberto pushed this on several NOP athletes and none of them ever took him up on it? Give me a break.

She never said she didn't take them.

By the photos in the video, she definitely had them, and probably took them. As she said, she was actually doing what she could to lose weight, which is what led to all the injuries.

Now, look at Jordan Hasay, Hassan, Kejelcha, Rupp...at least we know how they got their bodies to the point they're at now.

I always thought Cain could’ve been our best 800 runner. I was always confused on why Saladbar wanted her to do longer distance stuff. Of course had she focused on the 800 we may not be in this whole weight controversy.

But to be a great distance runner you have to be light. There aren’t any easy ways to do it. Either she wanted it or not. Doesn’t appear like she did.