WTF SERIOUSLY: Lornah Salpeter just ran 2:19:46 Prague ein

Hi Dan. Can you give more detail about Lonah strength exercises with weights in the gym. What exercises, how much weight, reps etc..

Also if you can give details about ployometric ployometric drills if she does any.

Thanks

Gaaakkkk wrote:

Another doping apologist appears with the nonsensical, "completely abnormal progression is totally logical...it's the Israeli dirt trail training, falafel, and untapped potential" diatribe. In two separate posts, no less.

There is every reason to doubt, no matter how much Dan and the shady Italian doth protest.

Not an apologist per se, but you guys go to the other extreme of tainting most great performances as being the result of doping - which is also ridiculous, because by your generalizations you cast doubt on genuinely clean athletes who register wonderful performances.

1. Dan and R.C. have argued logically and persuasively the reasons for Lonah's magnificent progress, and it is logical. Remember, prior to 2016, she was just a jogger, jogging on the promenade in Tel Aviv, with all the other joggers. Dan and other experts discovered her and untapped her potential. R.C. then concocted a wonderful and effective training plan from Kerio view in Iten.

2. All of her progress has been documented in Dan's and R.C.'s notebooks and computer data entries, and if you care to go to Iten others will testify that Lonah is the real deal and a wonderful talent and human being at that.

Israeli athletics takes a very hard stance against dopers - basically banning them for life - and Dan is witness to that, so Lonah would never dope as she is tested very frequently, in addition to running on the Euro circuit which has permanent checks and balances of athletes' bio passports.

So her chances of doping are practically nil.

Let's get a bit of kudos for her wonderful performance in Prague.

Question to Dan and R.C. - had Lonah run London instead of Prague, do you both think she could have won the race, and recorded around 2:18?

Thank you.

Ghost in China

Ghost1 wrote:

Not an apologist per se, but you guys go to the other extreme of tainting most great performances as being the result of doping - which is also ridiculous, because by your generalizations you cast doubt on genuinely clean athletes who register wonderful performances.

Thank you.

Ghost in China

Actually, you are an apologist per se. You have a long, long history of coming on here and defending athletes who have been convicted of doping.

Honestly, I don't think Lonah, AT THE MOMENT, can run 2:18:20 with the second half in 66:42. I repeat, AT THE MOMENT what Brigid Kosgei was able to do is something that only Mary Keitany did, in the last 10 years. But the limits of Lonah are not still known. In my opinion, she can run (of course, with 2 months of training ALSO in that direction) around 8'30" in 3000m, and in 14'30" in 5000m, something Mary Keitany was not able to do.

Brigid is younger than Lonah, but athletically speaking, more expert and, probably, more consumpted.

There are analogies between Brigid and Lonah (and Edna Kiplagat) at the beginning of their career : everybody ran her first marathon WITHOUT training, in a pedestrian time :

Edna Kiplagat at 26 years of age, in 2:50'20" (10th position in Las Vegas on 4th December 2005)

Brigid Kosgei at 21 years of age, in 2:47'59" (winning a small race in Porto on 8th November 2015)

Lonah Salpeter at 28 years of age, in 2:40'17" (in Tel Aviv on 17th February 2015, for qualifying for WCh).

But Brigid was in full training for marathon immediately in 2016, while both Edna and Lonah waited some year before looking at marathon as main event. For that reason, the speed of improvement was faster for Brigid :

2:27:45 (1) Milan 3.04.2016

2:24:45 (2) Lisbon 2.10.2016

2:31:11 (1) Honolulu 11,12.2016

2:31:48 (8) Boston 17.04.2017

2:20:22 (2) Chicago 8.10.2017

2:22:15 (1) Honolulu 10.12.2017

2:20:13 (2) London 22.04.2018

2:18:35 (1) Chicago 7.10.2018

2:18:20 (1) London 28.04.2019

In the middle, her results in HM continued to show a big improvement in shorter distances too :

1:07:35 (1) Verbania 5.03.2017

1:06:35 (3) Copenhagen 17.09.2017

1:06:45 (7) RAK 9.02.2018

1:07:52 (2) South Shields 9.09.2018

1:05:50 (1) Houston 20.01.2019

1:05:28 (1) Zallaq 15.03.2019

Without forgetting her victory on 31.12.2018 in the 10 km of Madrid (downhill) in 29'54".

So, more experience compared with Lonah, in spite of the younger age ; but in one year, and in the weather conditions of Tokyo, something can change (don't forget Lonah is already in Olympics, while Kenyans and Ethiopians must have their top shape in April for being selected, and this can make difficult to have the full shape already in August).

Renato CONova

You are labeling others as stupid just because they are skeptical of certain runners. You are the one who is either stupid or more likely, dishonest. You are the one who has an investment in saying certain runners are clean. You are a proven liar on these boards...unless you are simply stupid.

So when women runners come from virtually nowhere to start running times that put them in the same company as great male runners like Abebe Bikila it's just put down to improved training. And we know Abebe would never have trained hard like the women runners of today.

Not exactly. I label you like dishonest, because all what you write is not correct.

I never had an investment in saying that doped runners are clean. But I said that for what I know (and I think to know a little bit more than what you know), athletes DOPED (like Rita Jeptoo) before one specific race, WERE NOT DOPED YEARS BEFORE, while people here think that they started to use PEDs from the beginning of their career. AND THIS IS NOT TRUE.

Also, I didn't accept suppositions done without knowing particulars, for example the stupid idea to look at Ramzi 3'39" (before doping) and 3'30" in one year (with doping) for calculating che EPO / CERA can give 9" of advantage in 1500m, WITHOUT CONSIDERING THAT THE RAMZI 3'39" WAS A WORKER FOR 8 HOURS PER DAY AND TRAINED WITH 6 SESSIONS PER WEEK, WHILE THE RAMZI OF THE NEXT YEAR, ALREADY MOVED TO BAHREIN, HAD A SALARY, BECAME AN ATHLETE FULL TIME AND STARTED TRAIN 13 TIMES PER WEEK.

I can't be proven liar on these board, for the simple reason that ALL WHAT I WRITE IS TRUE, and when I wrote something based on the REALITY people looking at the THEORY never were able to reply, if not repeating the same mantra (Never heard of Armstrong ? Scientists say improvement with EPO of 4%... etc.).

At the end of everything, you shows to be both : STUPID and DISHONEST, and your contribution to every discussion is under zero.

Sad that people are lambasting R.C. who is a great coach and contributor to athletics, and developer of the fast long 30-40km run which has revolutionized marathon times during the past few years.

Ghost in China

Renato

Do not continue to engage in conversation with posters who speak foolishly. I was wondedring if you had any information or know of anyone to get an update on Almaz Ayana. I really think Almaz, Lornah, SIffan, could make a very fast race if the weather is permitting.

There was an article about a week ago in which Brigid Kosgei said she would try for Paula's WR of 2:15:25 if that is true, Im sure several top marathoners will skip the 2019 World Championship marathon to focus on a big payday in the fall. Remember Tirunesh did it in 2017 and got Silver medal, I think there will be some athletes doing in this year and try to run the 10000m at 2019 Worlds and then a fast fall marathon.

Hi Ghost (Chris)

If I well remember, we met in Iten back in 2009, when I was at my 3rd year as an athlete for the first time in Altitude.

Well, I'm not sure Lonah could do what Brigid did in London, but I'm sure that 2h19'46 in Prague is not 2h19'46 in London with rabbits and deeper field around this level.

Organizers claimed before the race that it's very challenging to run the 2nd half faster in that course. Instead, Lonah run 38" faster the 2nd half, while completely alone for the last 15k.

Heavy weights; Dead lift (3-5×2-5×150% bw)

Bench press (2-3×5-10×70-80% bw)

Pully (same as DL)

Single leg dead lift 3D routine with a kettlebell (mostly isometric/eccentric focuse)

Sometimes a little bit of band exercises/floor exercises for warm up/preparation for the main session.

Armstronglivs wrote:

So when women runners come from virtually nowhere to start running times that put them in the same company as great male runners like Abebe Bikila it's just put down to improved training. And we know Abebe would never have trained hard like the women runners of today.

+1

Dan Salpeter wrote:

Heavy weights; Dead lift (3-5×2-5×150% bw)

Bench press (2-3×5-10×70-80% bw)

Pully (same as DL)

Single leg dead lift 3D routine with a kettlebell (mostly isometric/eccentric focuse)

Sometimes a little bit of band exercises/floor exercises for warm up/preparation for the main session.

Three significant changes.

1. Lonah has lost 8 kg in body weight, partly through meticulous diet and weight training. Heavy lifting, ironically, is a great/effective way to trim b.f.

2. The weight training (heavy with low reps) is a significant key to her improvement. Her quads. are much stronger, resulting in maintaining better form, posture and stride length.

3. The diet is another key, under Dan's watchful eyes measuring every gram.

Dan -yes good memories of the HAC in 2009, and I recall your extreme generosity leaving dozens of pairs of running shoes with local runners.

Dan, could you detail Lonah's new diet, which I am guessing might be more keto emphasis, with less carbs ?

Ghost in China

Another funny thing is that all believers in doping are not very good in statistics.

Here, I give you numbers and names of the athletes, included in top 100 all-time, who were positive in their career (also if after their best performance) :

5000m

Mohammed Mourhit (BEL/MAR) 12'49"71 in 2000 (17th) (he was DQ for EPO after winning WCCCh 2001)

Abderrahim Goumri (MAR) 12'50"25 (20th) in 2005 (he was DQ for the BP in 2008)

Ali Saidi-Sief (ALG) 12'50"86 (24th) in 2000 (DQ for nandrolone after WCh 2001)

Dieter Baumann (GER) 12'54"70 (46th) in 1997

Mathew Kisorio (KEN) 12'57"83 (73th) in 2010

10000m

Mohammed Mourhit 26'52"30 (34th) in 1999

Mathew Kisorio 26'54"25 (41st) in 2011

Abderrahim Goumri 27'02"62 (62nd) in 2005

HM

Abraham Kiptum (KEN) 58'18" (1st) in 2018 (for BP, still not official)

Mathew Kisorio (KEN) 58'46" (10th) in 2011

James Mwangi Wangari (KEN) 59'07" (29th) in 2016

MARATHON

2:04:53 Mathew Kisorio (44th) in 2018

2:05:13 Wilson Erupe (55th) in 2016

2:05:26 Abraham Kiptum (65th) in 2018

2:05:30 Abderrahim Goumri (71st) in 2008

Not only, but something nobody consider (of course, because can be AGAINST the theory of the big advantages of EPO) is that the performances of Kisorio and Erupe were achieved AFTER coming back from the ban.

Here we can see all the marathons of Kisorio :

Before the ban (starting on 11.07.2012, ending on 10.07.2014) :

2:10:58 (7) New York 6.11.2011

2:18:15 (10) Boston 16.04.2012

After coming back :

2:06:33 (2) Valencia 15.11.2015

2:14:13 (9) Dongying 8.05.2016

2:13:27 (9) Valencia 20.11.2016

2:07:32 (1) Daegu 2.04.2017

2:11:20 (13) Valencia 19.11.2017

2:06:36 (2) Paris 8.04.2018

2:13:14 (3) Mexico City 26.08.2018

2:04:53 (3) Valencia 2.12.2018

2:12:38 (1) Eldoret 21.04.2019

And here we can see all the marathons of Wilson Erupe (positive for EPO on 4.02.2013 after his worse competition in HM in Houston, ban ending on 3.02.2015) :

2:13:00 (1) Mombasa 15.05.2011

2:09:23 (1) Gongju 16.10.2011

2:05:37 (1) Seoul 18.03.2012

2:06:46 (1) Gongju 21.10.2012 (these, before the ban)

2:06:11 (1) Seoul 15.03.2015

2:07:01 (1) Gongju 11.10.2015

2:05:13 (1) Seoul 20.03.2016

2:08:52 (5) Gongju 16.10.2016

2:06:27 (5) Seoul 19.03.2018

2:06:57 (1) Seoul 18.03

At this point, if the "believers" of EPO are able to be honest in the analysis of the FACTS, for a moment forgetting their SUPPOSITIONS, we can see that BOTH THE ATHLETES ACHIEVED THEIR BEST PERFORMANCE AFTER COMING BACK FROM THE BAN.

Of course, the justification for this is "they continued to dope", but this is a supposition without any evidence, and probably without any base, because, after the ban, both of them lived their period of more intense control, going under the "care" of the antidoping of South Africa for more than 10 times.

And another thing : if you give credibility to Mathew Kisorio for his interview by Seppelt in ARD, you need also to give credibility to ALL HIS FURTHER BEHAVIOR, and he apologized for making the mistake of doping, explaining how he lost friends, manager and self respect, and how difficult was to recover also under the human point of view.

At the end, is very funny that, in 4 different events, considering the top 100 all-time, the names connected with doping are fundamentaly always the same, representing 5% in 5000m, 3% in 10,000m, 3% in HM and 4% in full Marathon.

Of course, with a good exercise of "logic", if 3-4-5% of athletes are doped, IT MEANS THAT THE OTHER 97-96-95% ARE DOPED FOR THE TRANSITIVE CAPACITY.

Really, nobody can try to think that the answer is very simple : THE MOST PART OF THEM ARE CLEAN ?

Dude, it looks like you copied and pasted a tweet from Trump's Twitter feed.

You do have good memory (not dozens of shoes but 3-4 pairs)

Regarding the diet:

Not keto/low carb at all, she is still an endurance athlete...

But, according to her TEE, our expert has decided to put her on 1820 k cal/day, (2gr/kg bw of protein), all the other calories are from carbs and "healty fats". Special attention to Iron supplementation in Altitude (100-150 mg/day ) and Vitamin D (10000 IU/day)

So nothing sophisticated, only very accurate.

Before long run/Special block, extra 200 calories of carbs, and while Kenya, no-limit-Chai-consumption ;)

Dan Salpeter wrote:

all the other calories are from carbs and "healty fats". Special attention to Iron supplementation in Altitude (100-150 mg/day ) and Vitamin D (10000 IU/day)

Iron supplementation and Vitamin D sounds like Renato's supplementation regiment for his athletes, did he recommend these?

Renato CONova

One would expect better of you. What I see is that you offer very little but ad hominem attacks and then you create a straw man to dumb down the conversation. The fact that you create the straw man is disconcerting for those of us who can readily ascertain your agenda. Nobody, or only fools, are asserting that Ramzi improved so much solely due to PEDs, of course hard work is the inevitable concomitant variable. However, you sound much like the laughable Salazar and his push-up regimen almost magically transforming Mo Farah from a world class journeyman into a virtually unbeatable World and Olympic champion. Those of us with intelligence are cognizant that this whole area is complex and that intelligent training is the most important ingredient in the recipe. However, you continually and at times laughably minimize the contribution of PEDs. The reason you do this is because you think it detracts from the legitimacy of your athletes. I ask you, if doping confers such meager benefits, why do you think it should be prohibited?

Renato Canova

Stop replying to tge posters who are always accusing and,have nothing but negative comments. I have been on a track team rates #1 the U.S. and have witnessed #1 world ranked athletes doing peds; however, for every 1 dirty athlete there are at least 20 clean athletes from high school to pro.

It doesnt matter what country you pick there are and akways will be far more clean athletes then drug cheats. So yeah Lornah could make such improvemenrs clean and still continue to improve. She just not better beat Almaz in the 10000m Lol (smile).