Western States transgender policy seems to be a good one

death of female sports wrote:

Not surprising the male benevolent dictators would take this approach. This is not right for the female athletes, it isn't unlike competing against someone who had the advantages of doping etc. There are skeletal differences that are not changed by hormones. I believe you should have XY chromosomes to compete as a female. This is totally wrong for female athletics!!

This is the key. No matter how much hormone treatment you put a man through, the benefits of a body built by and for testosterone never go away. There are permanent skeletal and muscular benefits that will provide an unfair advantage.

Going the other way, you can't allow half the athletes in an event injecting testosterone or steroids. Again, it isn't just unethical, it is unfair.

Precisely. The unfair advantage comes down to a chemical, hormonal level. Anyone who thinks it is fair for a man [who is caught up in the belief that he is woman] to compete against a field of women and place or win is part of the larger issue. These people need help. They mustn't be shunned, they must be supported.

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

broken arrow wrote:

You are either a male or female at birth, regardless of what crazy plastic surgery or hormonal therapy you have had.

This is not true at all for a not insignificant percentage of the population and you can easily find information that disproves your claim if you actually were interested in knowing the details.

There is no evidence that disproves the statement “you are born either male or female.” There is not a signifanct number of people born with male and female reproductive organs. Unless you are referring to personal opinions of those who believe geneder is a choice (this includes anyone who is not a scientist or medical practitioner). Those are opinions, not evidence.

Regarding the thread, I think it’s a great policy. It’s very fair and reasonable.

We should have eliminated all categories effective on MLK day. That is the right thing to do. Liberals will finally be happy until the first athletic takes place and they realize that men will win everything. Then we will start the process over from the beginning.

A simple check box on the birth certificate will solve this problem:

Check either "Yes" or "No"

Does this child have a Y Chromosome? Yes / No

Sporting events can then be divided into two groups: the "Y" group and the "No Y" group.

No need to discuss hormones, therapy, etc., etc.

Where does that put women who have been doing their magical change drugs for a few years? They don't have a Y chromosome but they can't fairly compete against women.

There is no policy that can be deemed fair if it involves anything synthetic, period.

Example: 45 year old male with low T competes against a genotypic female (trans-male) who gets to dope T to the absolute max amount acceptable under current regulations. This is simply not fair! Equally (if not more) unfair are genotypic males (trans-female) competing against women for obvious reasons.

By the way, the group most likely to be hurt by these rules are WOMEN!

The next logical step is one--all comers--division, sorry ladies. The only solution I can see in the short term is a third "non-binary" division for anyone using synthetic products. However, if you start to analyze the messaging behind this idea it totally discredits the past 20 years of calling for clean sports. Which brings me back to my original point, there is no policy that can be deemed fair if it involves anything synthetic, period.

If hormone therapy really reduces a transgender woman's performance 10-12% from her performances with unaltered male biology, then I think transgender women should be able to compete in the female category in running events. I am a woman and, admittedly, I was previously furious about transgender athletes competeting as women. This was not because I disliked trans people (who are just people) but because I love competeing so much. It is a thrill to race, and racing is twice as fun when you have an opportunity to win or to place well. Watching the women's 800m in Rio broke my heart, not because I have anything against Semenya but because I love having a XX-only category where women can compete and be relevant. After reading this thread, I now believe that if hormone therapy can produce an equivalent, not identical, handicap to the XX chromosome combo ("equivalent" is the way that a given sport measures perfoemance), then transgender women should be able to compete. Hormone therapy may not be able to reduce an XY advantage to an "equivalent" to female level in all sports, however. Maybe this can be eventually remedied with the help of creative scientific minds.

rojo wrote:

Fantastic point. You basically want to be smaller for running. But for the WNBA it would be awful. I mean17% of US men who are 7 feet tall make the NBA, I imagine it would be close to 100% for the WNBA.

All else being equal, if a basket ball player has a 1:6 chance of making the NBA, it would be crazy to trade that for a guaranteed spot in the WNBA. The average salary in the WNBA is around $70,000, the average salary int he NBA is around $7,000,000 - yes, that's 100 times more.

Maybe these are the kinds of gender questions we really should be discussing - especially those (invariably male) posters who claim to be "defending women".

Julia Beck was booted from the Baltimore LGBTQ Commission because she referred to a male rapist as male even though he says he’s female. They placed this male rapist in a woman’s prison where he proceeded to rape more women. Beck is both a lesbian and a self-confessed “radical feminist” who told her story on an amazing panel at the Heritage Foundation this week:

Beck was accused of “violence” for referring to the male rapist as a male. The effort to vote Beck off the LGBTQ Commission was led by the Commission chairman, a man who says he’s a woman and—get this—a lesbian. A man, most likely one with a penis, who says he’s a lesbian. He would no doubt say his penis is female.

During the hearing to kick her off, a gay man announced that “biological sex is a thing of the past.” Beck responded, “How can we be homosexual if sex is fake?”

A woman who identifies as a man testified against Beck. According to Beck, the woman had “just survived a hysterectomy and was shaking and complaining of hot flashes.” The woman said she was not and had never been a woman. She said, “It does not make me any less of a man that I have a vulva. It’s there and it’s masculine…” Beck wept as she told this woman’s story.

Beck told the largely conservative crowd, There are only three sexualities: homosexual, heterosexual, and bi-sexual. All the hip new identities in the alphabet soup like non-binary, gender fluid, pansexual, are not real sexualities. Sexualities are based on sex while gender identities are based on stereotypes.” To underscore her point, consider that so-called “trans-women”, i.e., men, usually present themselves in the most exaggerated and even grotesque caricatures of women.

In my book, Fake Science, I report on homosexual men who complain that effeminate boys are immediately considered “trans-girls” rather than homosexuals. In the same way, girls who like climbing trees and like the color blue are considered “trans-boys.” Both “trans-boys” and “trans-girls” are pushed by “gender therapists” and other trans cultists into puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and eventually into brutal surgeries.

Wow, reading that left me speechless.

Sex is biological, but gender is political. Who are you becomes which side are you on? The "Brave New World" of identity politics.

Post-race peck check.

Looks like a fair policy.

Haters, someone you know well is transgender, or maybe you are. It could be a close friend or relative, perhaps someone you love.

Open your minds, open your hearts.

We feel for the women who have to compete against men. You really need to open your heart to the millions of innocent women who are starting to be negatively impacted instead of worrying about the dozens of guilty men who are robbing women of their right to fairly compete.

I have nothing against those born with physical or mental disabilities. I hope they find nothing but peace and happiness in their lives. I hope Democrats will, one day, quit preying on the weak to garner votes.

Transgender sport offers a new definition of social inclusiveness and equality of rights for women. When the interests of the 1% take priority over the remaining 99%. SJW logic.

Big Red wrote:

Looks like a fair policy.

Haters, someone you know well is transgender, or maybe you are. It could be a close friend or relative, perhaps someone you love.

Open your minds, open your hearts.

+1

Here are the real wages of transphobia.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

broken arrow wrote:

It is not my claim, there have always been just two genders.

Why do you care if a transgender wins a masters cycling race in Canada, some sprints in Florida or maybe finishes in the top ten at WS? People don't choose to be transgender just so they can race against women and it hasn't become an issue at any national race such as FL or NCAA. Why are you so offended?

Why is the world producing so many idiots! It has nothing to do with being offended.