ex-runner wrote:
That didn't work for some reason
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It's not hard to find who may have more testosterone than is normal for a woman, just look at the top of the results.
Good start. Now can Yes A Secret Man get rabbited to 54 in Monaco or somewhere, then run the last 400 on pure hate and obliterate Crotchitchvilova from the record books?
Semenya may just have realized there's no downside to going for it now. After all, whether the upcoming high-T intersex ban will stand will be decided on PC, not PBs.
HRH wrote:
This charade has been prolonged due to the fact that (a) Semenya is black and (b) whatever it is runs for a third world country and in both cases, authorities walk on egg shells, terrified of upsetting either.
Ironically, as a Second Mate, when trading in and out of African ports, we used to come across a few, what we were told, were hermaphrodites and they were treated with hostility by the locals. We’d find them in bars, reduced to working in the sex trade. But with Semenya it’s different, because he/she could obviously win gold medals for South Africa and the they are not going to give up that unexpected windfall in a hurry. .
.
The key point here, South Africa is willing to destroy the sport in order to protect their gold medal haul. If this sham stands I wonder if South Africa will be happy when other countries turn male 1:47-1:51 runners into female 1:47-1:51 runners.
Cheater wrote:
Semenya runs 1:54.26 with NO PACERS and looks very comfortable. She is cheating. How is this not cheating? She clearly has the musculature of a man. She knows her time is running out and is finally trying harder in races. She is a cheater!!!!
THIS was the original thread and was changed by the Brojos.
Changing the threads and removing pertinent information is not truthful.
Please do NOT change the threads.
Let us post the TRUTH and discuss it thoroughly to come to a resolution of this issue.
That's not amazing considering that "she" ran a 50/1:55/4:00 triple a year or two ago.
duhski wrote:
It's not hard to find who may have more testosterone than is normal for a woman, just look at the top of the results.
I'll have to take a closer look at Shannon Rowbury.
I've never been a fan of Semenya competing in women's 800m races given her likely genetic state, and am in favor of the new restrictions.
So I never thought I'd hear myself say it...but yes, I want Semenya to get the WR.
I detest all the ultra-doped women's records from the 80s. If Semenya ends up wiping Kratochvilova's record off the books, all power to her. A triumph of "natural" doping over lab-sponsored doping. It seems oddly fitting.
Kratochvilova probably had man-like levels of testosterone in her anyway.
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
The key point here, South Africa is willing to destroy the sport in order to protect their gold medal haul. If this sham stands I wonder if South Africa will be happy when other countries turn male 1:47-1:51 runners into female 1:47-1:51 runners.
This is really up to the IAAF and to some extent the IOC. The rules allow this situation to exist and other countries will have no choice but to find their own Semenya. Either that or take the brakes off of doping for women.
As always, this isn't personal. She didn't ask to be so biologically distinct. It's a terrible situation for every other woman in her races.
rasnip wrote:
I've never been a fan of Semenya competing in women's 800m races given her likely genetic state, and am in favor of the new restrictions. So I never thought I'd hear myself say it...but yes, I want Semenya to get the WR.
People who think this way are clearly not thinking. First of all, men have a clear 10 percent advantage at top levels, which is far more than any imaginary advantage for women. For example, the greatest outlier in all of women's athletics is Paula Radcliffe's 2:15 marathon. Yet she has not yet been banned, and no failed illegal activity has yet been divulged. Many people still think she is clean. If this is the case, how can any other top level woman have any advantage with drugs? That would seem to be not possible, in fact imaginary. If there is any advantage with drugs, it is certainly one that is not significant.
The 10 percent advantage that men have over women is far greater, then an advantage that quite probably is no greater than 0 at the best.
Kratochvilova, who was a hard working muscle bound woman with 48 second 400 speed, the second fastest ever, should not be compared to a man, and certainly not to Semenya, as she was much much better than he is. What is known about her is that she was quite heavily into weights and heavy resistance training, probably much more so than any other woman ever. Her times came from her quite exceptional training. Her body type was nothing unusual for a woman who trained heavily with the weights, and her running training was similarly quite arduous.
There has never been any slightest evidence that she ever took drugs. There is every possibility that she fully deserves to keep the record that she set.
No man should ever be allowed to break and hold a record set by a woman, including this one.
Think about this, before you say that such a think would be good.
No, it would not be good. It would be terrible, for all women everywhere.
rasnip wrote:
So I never thought I'd hear myself say it...but yes, I want Semenya to get the WR.
Agree with this. I want Semenya to get the WR this year. No one can touch that record unless doped to the gills or not really a she. So, it's out of reach for everyone else anyway. I wouldn't even mind a 400 record as well, thought I don't think that's remotely possible.
There will certainly be lifetime bests and non-eastern bloc area records for the other women on the track. Then, fair competition will be restored for the Worlds and the Olympics. A Semenya WR would serve to remind the powers that be that if you are going to have a female category, you need to protect it (though the only correct answer is complete ineligibility for the female category for those who don't completely qualify for the category rather than hormone treatments to make an athlete eligible). A Semenya WR would prove to any neutral party that something has to be done. No longer could they point out that Semenya is 8th or 4th or even 2nd on the all-time list so belongs in the category.
Regarding the non-rabbits - in many of the rabbited races, I've seen Semenya have to pass the rabbit in Lane 2 before the rabbit would peel off. Good decision to do without the rabbit.
What a joke wrote:
Likewise, I get no enjoyment out of watching these 800 races anymore. What a farce. The fact that it has gone on for years without them changing the rules is a joke. I don’t know how anyone can celebrate the performance when high school boys run 1:54 all the time. The other women in these races are making a huge mistake by not boycotting them until they get to race fairly again.
Thank you Thank you Thank you - I've posted these exact thoughts so many times in the past but thought I was the only one - I absolutely refuse to call Caster a "she" or "her" I will not do it - have no problem with Caster the individual, but this Caster individual needs to compete with semi elite men, because that is the proper place for Caster. I'd respect Caster then and maybe perhaps become a fan - but at this juncture, I'm not a fan and I don't respect Caster. To rob actual women of their glory is disgusting and don't understand why more women aren't more upset over this fiasco and sham.
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
The key point here, South Africa is willing to destroy the sport in order to protect their gold medal haul. If this sham stands I wonder if South Africa will be happy when other countries turn male 1:47-1:51 runners into female 1:47-1:51 runners.
This is really up to the IAAF and to some extent the IOC. The rules allow this situation to exist and other countries will have no choice but to find their own Semenya. Either that or take the brakes off of doping for women.
As always, this isn't personal. She didn't ask to be so biologically distinct. It's a terrible situation for every other woman in her races.
Obviously neither of what the other poster said or what you said about doping will happen.
In the real world outside of the extreme and often apocalyptic themes of Letsrun, big boys will continue to consider how best to tackle the Semenya issue, without calling her a 'man' or a 'cheat' or making doping legal or other crazy ideas.
CAS didn't just throw out the IAAF's case before, they suspended the IAAF's hyperandrogenism rules PENDING research to back it up. Essentially the IAAF just decided a random amount of testosterone (10nmol/ml) was not allowed and had no evidence or research to back it up. CAS said bring us evidence in the next 18 or 24 months and we will review the case.
The IAAF took longer than that and the suspension period expired. With no evidence to back up their rules excluding some athletes from the competition, CAS declared the IAAF had failed and their hyperandrogenism rules were illegal.
Now the IAAF has made different rules. And this time they have gone away and according to them, done the research to back up their rules which I believe are actually more strict than before, off the back of that research.
If the evidence is good, and shows that other women are not able to compete on a level playing field with someone with natural testosterone levels far in excess of other women then the rules will hold up.
I'm not sure the IAAF would make the same mistake twice, it will be very interesting to see what their evidence is and whether CAS considers it valid. However if the rules are dismissed by CAS again then I feel that that will be the end of it this time.
ex-runner wrote:
That didn't work for some reason
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It looks like another intersex freak to me. Has it internal testes as well?
The real problem here is CAS.
adlkjuuel wrote:
I'd be absolutely livid if I were her and someone was telling me I had to do drugs, the consequences of which are not fully understood, just so I can run a few laps around a track.
Except that she can run drug free and 100% naturally as a man where she simply is not good enough to compete at a high level. If she's going to try and take advantage of the sport to defraud a lot of people out of money, then yeah, she better play along with identifying as a female and adjust her body to make it fair.
What a joke wrote:
Likewise, I get no enjoyment out of watching these 800 races anymore. What a farce. The fact that it has gone on for years without them changing the rules is a joke. I don’t know how anyone can celebrate the performance when high school boys run 1:54 all the time. The other women in these races are making a huge mistake by not boycotting them until they get to race fairly again.
Spinachrunner wrote:
Thank you Thank you Thank you - I've posted these exact thoughts so many times in the past but thought I was the only one - I absolutely refuse to call Caster a "she" or "her" I will not do it - have no problem with Caster the individual, but this Caster individual needs to compete with semi elite men, because that is the proper place for Caster. I'd respect Caster then and maybe perhaps become a fan - but at this juncture, I'm not a fan and I don't respect Caster. To rob actual women of their glory is disgusting and don't understand why more women aren't more upset over this fiasco and sham.
The women are absolutely upset, but they don't have a say, and there's not much they can do.
The few who've spoken up have been attacked for it.
Katrina Karkazis wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
That didn't work for some reason
https://i0.wp.com/breesejumps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/JKMPHTO004.jpghttps://i1.wp.com/breesejumps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/photo-1.pnghttps://i1.wp.com/breesejumps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/photo-14.jpgIt looks like another intersex freak to me. Has it internal testes as well?
Clearly the real issue with some of you is that you are simply bigots.
If a woman chooses to wear masculine clothing, that does not make her a man or intersex. Very childish from letsrun anons as usual.
Total nonsense : wrote:
Kratochvilova, who was a hard working muscle bound woman with 48 second 400 speed, the second fastest ever, should not be compared to a man, and certainly not to Semenya, as she was much much better than he is. What is known about her is that she was quite heavily into weights and heavy resistance training, probably much more so than any other woman ever. Her times came from her quite exceptional training. Her body type was nothing unusual for a woman who trained heavily with the weights, and her running training was similarly quite arduous.
There has never been any slightest evidence that she ever took drugs. There is every possibility that she fully deserves to keep the record that she set.
No man should ever be allowed to break and hold a record set by a woman, including this one.
Think about this, before you say that such a think would be good.
No, it would not be good. It would be terrible, for all women everywhere.
First we'll figure out what to do with the unfortunate "tweeners" like Semenya - I favor changing T&F from men's / women's to open and restricted divisions.
Once that is done, the next step should be to purge every world record that was recorded before the biological passport era. The ubiquitous doping of the era makes direct comparison meaningless, particularly for women and the massive benefit they derived from 80s drugs.
Clearly the real issue with some of you is that you are simply bigots.
If a man chooses to call himself a woman and wear masculine clothing, that does not make her a man or intersex. Very childish from letsrun anons as usual. Let's just call him a woman and let him run with the women.
