sprcoach 19.99 wrote:
Dave FREAKIN Wottle.......whats wrong with u all!!
Haha. Well done! Though... didn’t he merely run equal splits? Everyone else was fading. It sure looked like an amazing kick, I’ll give you that. Certainly, one of my favorite races to watch. Think I’ll go watch it now.
wammr wrote:
sprcoach 19.99 wrote:
Dave FREAKIN Wottle.......whats wrong with u all!!
Haha. Well done! Though... didn’t he merely run equal splits? Everyone else was fading. It sure looked like an amazing kick, I’ll give you that. Certainly, one of my favorite races to watch. Think I’ll go watch it now.
Exactly.
Arzhanov had the race in the bag if he didn't start his kick so early.
Bannister’s kick had a fearsome, race-altering reputation.
Coevett wrote:
Fausto Coppi wrote:
Who has the best finishing kick ever for middle or long distance races?
Snell?
Ryun?
Coe?
Ovett?
Yifter?
Cova?
Skah?
Morceli?
Gebrselassie?
Borzakovskiy?
Bekele?
Farah?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWoNJYweeoYI don't think there's much to seperate Ryun, Ovett, and Coe.
I think the three most impressive finishing kicks ever in middle-distance were Ryun in his famous Dusseldorf run, Ovett in his famous Dusseldorf run, and Coe in the Moscow 1500m.
People point to the Moscow 1500 final as evidence that Coe's kick was superior to Ovett's, and that Ovett never ran a 12.1 last 100m. I think this is a little unfair. Ovett was tired, unmotivated, and undergoing some girlfriend problems that put him off in the Moscow 1500 final. He also had a bad cold a week later so it's not implausible that might have affected him too. Watching the race again as they both start their sprint in the home straight it appears Ovett is moving faster than Coe but seems to hit a wall and can't then even get past Beyer. He just looked flat. His World Cup 77 run looked like he could have ran 12.1 in that last 100 if he hadn't slowed down but instead was racing for Olympic Gold with a Coe on his shoulder. Deano himself says Ovett neglected his speed work after 77. I don't think his kick was quite as good as it was at the end of 77 and the summer of 78.
Ovett kick remained the same until he hit those railings in 82.
Like really bro wrote:
Mo Farah and it’s not even close. If your thinking it’s someone else then you are looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses.
He made a 7 year career out of it and was the most dominant winner in Olympic/World championship history for distance running. Always the kick to win, every race. Nothing comes close.
A kick by my definition is not finishing a fast 600m , 800m.
To me it's a sudden I injection of pace which was not really Farah. Hes more in the Viren wind up pace mode.
.I like Yifter and Ovett for the sudden change of pace opening up an instant gap.
The truth is lots of those guys had s great kick you can't just measure a segment. If you could I'd like it down to 20 or 30m. Otherwise it's just have a fast finish
i suppose some parameters would have to be set with what defines a great kick (winning vs. fastest last lap vs. fastest last 150m vs. some combination of all of the above), as well as differentiating between mid-d and long-d.
my definition--and that of course means it's not definitive by any means--of a good kick ultimately means winning the race. the fact that herb elliott hasn't at least been mentioned is criminal, then.
long-d it seems farah is hard to beat...
this reminds me of a response from joe montana when asked how it feels to be so clutch, to which he said something like he wouldn't have to be clutch if he could play better earlier in the game, so you could argue the best kick is to not have to kick...
so you could argue the best kick is to not have to kick...[/quote]
This is some heady stuff, right here. I know what you mean: Don’t leave it to a kick.
Make sure you don’t expend too much energy in the early stages of the race, though. You don’t want to get out-kicked.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Like really bro wrote:
Mo Farah and it’s not even close. If your thinking it’s someone else then you are looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses.
He made a 7 year career out of it and was the most dominant winner in Olympic/World championship history for distance running. Always the kick to win, every race. Nothing comes close.
A kick by my definition is not finishing a fast 600m , 800m.
To me it's a sudden I injection of pace which was not really Farah. Hes more in the Viren wind up pace mode.
.I like Yifter and Ovett for the sudden change of pace opening up an instant gap.
The truth is lots of those guys had s great kick you can't just measure a segment. If you could I'd like it down to 20 or 30m. Otherwise it's just have a fast finish
So a kick in your definition is a sudden change of pace?
just look at him, man
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Like really bro wrote:
Mo Farah and it’s not even close. If your thinking it’s someone else then you are looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses.
He made a 7 year career out of it and was the most dominant winner in Olympic/World championship history for distance running. Always the kick to win, every race. Nothing comes close.
A kick by my definition is not finishing a fast 600m , 800m.
To me it's a sudden I injection of pace which was not really Farah. Hes more in the Viren wind up pace mode.
.I like Yifter and Ovett for the sudden change of pace opening up an instant gap.
The truth is lots of those guys had s great kick you can't just measure a segment. If you could I'd like it down to 20 or 30m. Otherwise it's just have a fast finish
Agree. The turn of pace is key in the middle and distance events, but then its as important to be able to maintain that pace for the longest. I was always impressed wit Coe's change of place in the Moscow Olympic 1500 semi final, when he allowed himself to get surrounded by about 5 other athletes with 200 to go. Coleman's commentary at the end of the race were also quite prophetic.
https://youtu.be/c8uOC-1eH-4?t=809Deanouk wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
A kick by my definition is not finishing a fast 600m , 800m.
To me it's a sudden I injection of pace which was not really Farah. Hes more in the Viren wind up pace mode.
.I like Yifter and Ovett for the sudden change of pace opening up an instant gap.
The truth is lots of those guys had s great kick you can't just measure a segment. If you could I'd like it down to 20 or 30m. Otherwise it's just have a fast finish
Agree. The turn of pace is key in the middle and distance events, but then its as important to be able to maintain that pace for the longest. I was always impressed wit Coe's change of place in the Moscow Olympic 1500 semi final, when he allowed himself to get surrounded by about 5 other athletes with 200 to go. Coleman's commentary at the end of the race were also quite prophetic.
https://youtu.be/c8uOC-1eH-4?t=809
Not a bad last 100m kick from Aouita.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSsx9MBVw4glook at mills wrote:
just look at him, man
Mills for the GOLD!!!!!!
See Paul Ereng's finish at the 1988 Olympics.
Billy Konchellah was a good finisher too
OLD SMTC SOB wrote:
look at mills wrote:
just look at him, man
Mills for the GOLD!!!!!!
One hit wonder though?
Shelby is the new boss.
Joplas wrote:
See Paul Ereng's finish at the 1988 Olympics.
Billy Konchellah was a good finisher too
Ereng timed his race perfectly in the 1988 OG 800m final, while everyone died.
Brahim Boulami wrote:
Deanouk wrote:
Agree. The turn of pace is key in the middle and distance events, but then its as important to be able to maintain that pace for the longest. I was always impressed wit Coe's change of place in the Moscow Olympic 1500 semi final, when he allowed himself to get surrounded by about 5 other athletes with 200 to go. Coleman's commentary at the end of the race were also quite prophetic.
https://youtu.be/c8uOC-1eH-4?t=809Not a bad last 100m kick from Aouita.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSsx9MBVw4g
It's interesting that you should post this video.
So where was Aouita hiding at Zurich 89? He dodged Coe at Zurich in 89 too??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-grXjw1Pm0&t=300sIt's useful to compare the two races. The common opponent was Kip Cheruiyot, who they both struggled to pip.
The time at 1200m in the Aouita race was 2:54.09 (Aouita) and he won in 3:34.60.
The time at 1200m in the Coe race was 2:53.48 with Kirochi winning in 3:33.86
So Kirochi's last 300 was much faster than Aouitas.
Coe, however, was back in 6th or 7th place at the 300mark and then produced a blistering turn of pace to get back on the shoulders of the leaders but seemed to hold back, then decided to attempt to kick past the two Kenyans with about 50m to go. As Deano said, he was clearly holding himself back after injuring himself the week before in the AAAs where he ran a 51 second last lap after getting tripped.
Anyway, Coe's last 300 must have been about 2:54.5 to 3:34.5 i.e. 40 seconds.
Aouita's last 300 was 2:54.09 to 3:34.60 ie. 40.51 seconds.
So even an injured Coe holding back was faster than Aouita who was arguably in prime shape then (he must have ran his 3000m world record very close to this race).
No wonder Aouita dodged him again.
Coevett wrote:
Brahim Boulami wrote:
Not a bad last 100m kick from Aouita.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSsx9MBVw4gIt's interesting that you should post this video.
So where was Aouita hiding at Zurich 89? He dodged Coe at Zurich in 89 too??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-grXjw1Pm0&t=300sIt's useful to compare the two races. The common opponent was Kip Cheruiyot, who they both struggled to pip.
The time at 1200m in the Aouita race was 2:54.09 (Aouita) and he won in 3:34.60.
The time at 1200m in the Coe race was 2:53.48 with Kirochi winning in 3:33.86
So Kirochi's last 300 was much faster than Aouitas.
Coe, however, was back in 6th or 7th place at the 300mark and then produced a blistering turn of pace to get back on the shoulders of the leaders but seemed to hold back, then decided to attempt to kick past the two Kenyans with about 50m to go. As Deano said, he was clearly holding himself back after injuring himself the week before in the AAAs where he ran a 51 second last lap after getting tripped.
Anyway, Coe's last 300 must have been about 2:54.5 to 3:34.5 i.e. 40 seconds.
Aouita's last 300 was 2:54.09 to 3:34.60 ie. 40.51 seconds.
So even an injured Coe holding back was faster than Aouita who was arguably in prime shape then (he must have ran his 3000m world record very close to this race).
No wonder Aouita dodged him again.
Actually, just checking the IAAF list for 89, Coe ran 3:44.05 in Zurich, so his last 300m must have been closer to 39.5 seconds, compared to 40.51 for Aouita in his race.
Also looking at the list, it appears Aouita ducked all the top guys over 1500 that year - Bile, Kirochi, Coe, Herold. Even in his 30s and past his best, Coe wasn't afraid to take on anyone in his final season.
https://www.iaaf.org/records/all-time-toplists/middlelong/1500-metres/outdoor/men/senior?regionType=world&page=1&bestResultsOnly=false&firstDay=1989-01-01&lastDay=1989-12-09Coeuita wrote:
OLD SMTC SOB wrote:
Mills for the GOLD!!!!!!
One hit wonder though?
Not quite, but he did it when it counted. He set the US 10K record later, as well as a WR for 6 miles............Also, there was little to no money to be made running in those days, so most elite runners didn't stay long in the sport, as they do today.
Coevett wrote:
Coevett wrote:
It's interesting that you should post this video.
So where was Aouita hiding at Zurich 89? He dodged Coe at Zurich in 89 too??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-grXjw1Pm0&t=300sIt's useful to compare the two races. The common opponent was Kip Cheruiyot, who they both struggled to pip.
The time at 1200m in the Aouita race was 2:54.09 (Aouita) and he won in 3:34.60.
The time at 1200m in the Coe race was 2:53.48 with Kirochi winning in 3:33.86
So Kirochi's last 300 was much faster than Aouitas.
Coe, however, was back in 6th or 7th place at the 300mark and then produced a blistering turn of pace to get back on the shoulders of the leaders but seemed to hold back, then decided to attempt to kick past the two Kenyans with about 50m to go. As Deano said, he was clearly holding himself back after injuring himself the week before in the AAAs where he ran a 51 second last lap after getting tripped.
Anyway, Coe's last 300 must have been about 2:54.5 to 3:34.5 i.e. 40 seconds.
Aouita's last 300 was 2:54.09 to 3:34.60 ie. 40.51 seconds.
So even an injured Coe holding back was faster than Aouita who was arguably in prime shape then (he must have ran his 3000m world record very close to this race).
No wonder Aouita dodged him again.
Actually, just checking the IAAF list for 89, Coe ran 3:44.05 in Zurich, so his last 300m must have been closer to 39.5 seconds, compared to 40.51 for Aouita in his race.
Also looking at the list, it appears Aouita ducked all the top guys over 1500 that year - Bile, Kirochi, Coe, Herold. Even in his 30s and past his best, Coe wasn't afraid to take on anyone in his final season.
https://www.iaaf.org/records/all-time-toplists/middlelong/1500-metres/outdoor/men/senior?regionType=world&page=1&bestResultsOnly=false&firstDay=1989-01-01&lastDay=1989-12-09
I'm pretty sure Aouita cannot beat Coe in 1500m race if both are level with 200m to go.
Aouita would have to start his kick from 400m+ out.
Both of them had great running actions IMO.