Breaking: IAAF/British have BARRED Isaac Makwala from competing in 400 final because he's sick

Certainly Not Skuj wrote:

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but I just want to ask:

Are we all Medical Doctors, suddenly? We know best?

we are not talking about people who know about medicine. we are talking about fakers, people who practice medicine without knowing their head from their arssse.

But aren't we missing a huge factor here- we in the kitchen know better than to think a health regulator is out to keep folks safe. (No offence, I respect your position but stay with me here...) What's more important is who is liable to get sued when something goes wrong. When a department makes a "recommendation" that washes that branch clean of fault... So we have to sue who's next in line. In this case, a recommendation was made, and then bearing the brunt of whatever the potential outcome is the IAAF. IAAF doesn't want to risk getting sued by the person who might get sick, so they nip it in the butt.

Rojo/few others think they do wrote:

Certainly Not Skuj wrote:

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but I just want to ask:

We know best?

Rojo and a few others think they do.

I'm gonna go ahead and diagnose corruption 🤢

I'm non-expert and the medical environment between Britain and Japan can be different, but in my knowledge, noro virus infection usually being diagnosed by observing symptoms and situations - i.e. assumption, rather than some sort of testing.

While quick testing kit is available (at least in Japan, not sure in Britain), its specificity is good, but sensitivity isn't liable enough to determine whether the patient truely ISN'T infected. If you tested positive then you're infected, not the vise versa.

Also, full evaluation takes days if not weeks, and you can't get its result before race. The testing mainly serves for ex-post assessment to specify infection routes in outbreak cases, not for rapid diagnosis and solution.

So, if a bunch of people sharing food and/or accommodation show similar noro - like symptoms, especially when SOME of them tested positive in quick test, it can be reasonable to treat ALL of them as noro virus patients.

As I said before, i'm no expert. I can't tell whether barring Makwala was inevitable. I just want to tell you guys that their proctol seems to be one of the reasonable choices to handle such a situation.

Public health regulation and recommendation about infectious desease tend to be "trolley problem" type policy, and sometimes goes against individuals' best interest. While we should make such situation as fewer as possible, it isn't always avoidable, sadly.

If as Makwala and Botswana team's claimed, IAAF didn't communicate well with them, therefore left them in confusion, then that's really a shame through. There is no way to justify it.

How about letting him run in the 200m semis?

damage_limitation wrote:

How about letting him run in the 200m semis?

He didn't get through.

Sorry to be unclear. I meant advance him to the semis - there are spare lanes and he'll be out of quarantine.

"If this was a Brit or an American, lawyers would get an injunction."

Absolutely!! Imagine if this had been Muir or Farah.

A space could have been found for him to warm up alone. He could have left the stadium after the race, no lap of honour or posing with the flag (if appropriate). The medal ceremony could have been postponed for a couple of days, if necessary.

Taken to its logical conclusion, the entire crowd in the stadium should be screened for infectious diseases! Who knows if any spectators had thrown up in the last 24 hours!

It does seem as if he is merely suspected of having the norovirus; surely if he actually had the illness he would not remotely feel like he was ready to race an all out 400?

Doesn't the IAAF bear some responsibility for athlete's accommodation being of a fit standard? Where was Lord Coe when all this was happening?

Rojo/few others think they do wrote:

Certainly Not Skuj wrote:

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but I just want to ask:

We know best?

Rojo and a few others think they do.

Rojo and others are so extremely dense it's hilarious.

"it's a recommendation, not law"

What is the obsession with 'if it's not illegal, then its fine'? You think that if all the athletes in the village come down with a serious illness because of Makwala, miss their events and decide to sue the IAAF that the argument of 'we ignored the advice of the Public Health's board of experts because it's not the law' will hold much water?

Absolute insanity. What the hell does the law have to do with anything in this matter? It's not the law to allow Makwala to run at all, fit or not fit. It's a private institutions event and they decide who can and who cannot compete and who can and who can't enter the stadium. They can ban Rojo from entering for simply being an annoying know-it-all.

Tokyo non-Japanese wrote:

While quick testing kit is available (at least in Japan, not sure in Britain), its specificity is good, but sensitivity isn't liable enough to determine whether the patient truely ISN'T infected.

[...]

Also, full evaluation takes days if not weeks, and you can't get its result before race.

Wikipedia

Specific diagnosis of norovirus is routinely made by polymerase chain reaction (PCR) assays or quantitative PCR assays,which give results within a few hours. These assays are very sensitive and can detect as few as 10 virus particles

Duisenberg wrote:

Tokyo non-Japanese wrote:

While quick testing kit is available (at least in Japan, not sure in Britain), its specificity is good, but sensitivity isn't liable enough to determine whether the patient truely ISN'T infected.

[...]

Also, full evaluation takes days if not weeks, and you can't get its result before race.

Wikipedia

Specific diagnosis of norovirus is routinely made by polymerase chain reaction (PCR) assays or quantitative PCR assays,which give results within a few hours. These assays are very sensitive and can detect as few as 10 virus particles

Yeah, and as the woman representing the health of the athletes said on TV, the only lab available to carry out those tests is in Cambridge, and it takes a day for the results to get back after sending the samples.

What do you want them to do? Pretend he didn't vomit and treat him as he is clean then let him infect others and potentially bring down the games?

This illness is VERY contagious. Anyone that has been to a proper event with warm-up area and call room will know that you can infect everyone. Imagine if Niekerk came down with it and had to pull out the 200m?

ridiculous wrote:Yeah, and as the woman representing the health of the athletes said on TV, the only lab available to carry out those tests is in Cambridge, and it takes a day for the results to get back after sending the samples.

Makwala was quarantined on Tuesday, the final was on Wednesday. if the IAAF acted in the best interest of the athletes, they would have done absolutely everything in their power to get those lab results asap, instead of sitting on their lazy asses and being content with destroying an athletes dreams

Get real. wrote:

rojo wrote:

2) Even if he was sick, who cares, you don't ban him.

You septics are amazing, if a known sick athlete had been allowed in to the stadium and the athlete preparation rooms/tents etc and coughed and spluttered all over your athletes and passed something on to them so they were sick and unable to compete to their max, or not at all, you would care.

In fact , you'd be screaming from the friggin roof tops that he or she should never have been allowed within a mile of any other athlete. Amazing double standards when it suits.

+1.

So many on here are quick to jump to conclusions and automatically take the word of an athlete whose English is not the best in explaining a situation, over several medical personnel, because it's good to have a pop at the IAAF.

For a start the IAAF's hand were tied in that they had to follow protocol, once any athlete approaches the medical officers, claiming to be sick, as Makwala did. He has said it on camera. Other athletes may have been sick but if it's not reported to the medical officers before they compete, then there is nothing they or the IAAF can do about it.

Secondly, the doctor who Makwala spoke to said that the athlete said he'd been vomiting over a period of 18 hours. Why would a doctor make that up? Has Makwala got a vested interest to back track after being barred by saying he was just a bit sick!?

On the interview which was conducted by a BBC journalist for London and South East News, which is what I get in my area, he said, " I just vomited, like a little vomit, so I vomited when I got on the bus yesterday (which would have been full of other competitors!) when I got to my (something I can't make out) round of the heats. Then the medical saw me and they asked me if I was ok, I said IM NOT OK, then they took me to the medical room,.. then I waited about 30 minutes, there was nothing(!?) Then I went out, I just go to do my warm up for the 200, but after the warm up I went to go to the cool room, I think they put it to the IAAF that I'm sick, but without any tests,.. they just suggested that I was sick because THEY SAW ME VOMITING, I told them I'm ok. "

So he even contradicts himself. He was sick on the athletes' bus and he was seen being sick by officials. He then told them that he was not ok and that he'd previously been sick in previous 18 hours. When they then suggested he was not ill, obviously realising the possible result would be that he would be prevented from competing, he said he was ok!

As much as it is unfortunate and robbed the spectators of a possible close race, although I would suggest that he wouldn't have medaled had he been vomiting for 18 hours previous, the IAAF were following medical advice from Health authority England and following protocols set down in their own rules and regulations. To suggest it was some conspiracy to prevent him competing because they wanted WVN to win is ridiculous.

ridiculous wrote:This illness is VERY contagious. Anyone that has been to a proper event with warm-up area and call room will know that you can infect everyone. Imagine if Niekerk came down with it and had to pull out the 200m?

Seems like they had no problem with ElaineThompson possibly infecting all 100m finalists.

Re point 1), well he clearly did. I've just seen him say it to camera. They saw him vomit, they asked if he was alright and he said, "NO, I'M NOT OK!"

So either he wasn't forthcoming with the truth of what he said to his coach or the coach is lying.

Duisenberg wrote:

ridiculous wrote:Yeah, and as the woman representing the health of the athletes said on TV, the only lab available to carry out those tests is in Cambridge, and it takes a day for the results to get back after sending the samples.

Makwala was quarantined on Tuesday, the final was on Wednesday. if the IAAF acted in the best interest of the athletes, they would have done absolutely everything in their power to get those lab results asap, instead of sitting on their lazy asses and being content with destroying an athletes dreams

You think the IAAF can control all the variables? You think they are in charge of the lab in Cambridge and can just order them to drop all other work they are doing and test the sample of Isaac Makwala of Botswana because its the most important thing in the world? It's not an anti-doping lab, it's just a lab run by NHS or some other health body.

Makwala exhibited all the signs of norovirus according to experienced doctors that examined him directly, along with a confirmed outbreak of norovirus in the same hotel that Makwala is staying (with medical tests). They hardly even need a confirmed diagnosis to advise that he doesn't go around infecting other athletes and stays in his room.

Duisenberg wrote:

ridiculous wrote:This illness is VERY contagious. Anyone that has been to a proper event with warm-up area and call room will know that you can infect everyone. Imagine if Niekerk came down with it and had to pull out the 200m?

Seems like they had no problem with ElaineThompson possibly infecting all 100m finalists.

Elaine Thompson did not mention any sickness until after the final. From her selfish point of view, she did the right thing. Makwala was seen vomiting. Thompson said after the race that before the race she was sick.

"Olympic champion Elaine Thompson was also physically sick before the 100 meters final on Sunday, though the Jamaican said that was not unusual for her and hadn't had any effect on her below-par performance. She finished fifth."

Clearly she is sick before races (nerves most likely) often and didn't think anything of it so didn't go to the doctors.

Also her race was on Sunday, so they did not have a confirmed outbreak of norovirus at that point. Makwala ran that night also.

And i'd also like to reiterate that those stating that 'Makwala felt fine' by time the final are completely missing the point.

This is not about pretecting Makwala's health.

He would not die of norovirus.

This is about protecting the other athletes and the whole championships.

You remain contagious for many hours, even a couple of days, after you 'feel fine'.