43.03WR!! Van Niekirk

A good stuff! What is he taking?

Stumped wrote:

This is going to the untouchable WR books, like FloJo's and Koch's. Except for WVN, I believe he can go under 43 and set the WR beyond the reach of mere mortals.

He set the world record by .13.

When Flojo ran 10.49, the next fastest woman of all time was 10.76, .27 seconds back.

So if this was "like FloJo's" time, it would have had to be around 42 flat.

If you look at the all-time 400m list, you can see that Van Niekirk is much less of an outlier than FloJo was:

He's the best of all time (by definition of a world record), but it isn't an absurd time that is *far* ahead of every body else in history.

Look, when EPO was introducted to athletics in mid-1990s, there were only few white runners with improbable improvements. Virtually all the dopers were Moroccans, Algerians, Ethiopians and Kenyans. Why? Ask yourself.

Track and field is a Third World sport with pitiful financial rewards and athletes from developed countries are doing it rather as their hobby.

In doping there are two mid-range (i.e national basis rather than international) factors at work in different countries:

1) In poor countries, corruption and lack of testing v. lack of $$ and support resources for doping to average athlete. Kenya, Ethiopia and Jamaica are notable members of this "club"

2) In wealthier countries, more systemic controls in place, less blatant bribery and corruption (as well as ethics against cheating), v. much better availability and affordability of drugs and support for such. USA sprinting has been the most effective cohort on this level, but after busts of many of the top stars, it has lost traction somewhat against Jamaica.

Russia was in a "sweet spot" of having First-World resources at the federation level, but Third-World ethics and opportunities for systemic corruption. A few other countries have taken advantage of these conditions in the past, notably Italy in the 80s and 90s and Spain and Morocco in the 90's/early 2000s before an EPO test was effective in discouraging their doping programs.

Original Message

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roads for retirees

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RE: 43.03WR!! Van Niekirk

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Runrincerepeat wrote:

That was just incredible... He just destroyed MJs record

Meh.

0.3% improvement on an event WR in 17 years?

That is like if the 100 improved by 0.03 since 1997. Actually very slow progress and not surprising it happened.

Sounds like the ill-informed ramblings of distance runner. Whenever you see that a record has stood for 17 years - and more importantly has only been reset three times in almost fifty years - you're dealing with arguably the greatest record in T&F history. The same can said of the 200. You don't look at the percentage change. You ask yourself: why the f*ck did it take 20 years to finally break 44 again and lower Lee Evans' altitude assisted record? And why another 11 years until Butch Reynolds' 43.29 could be lowered. And another 17 years before Michael Johnson's epic 43.18 was approached, let alone broken? Because the 400 recordholders have given us the greatest performances in all of track since 1968. And I'm quite certain that three are 100% clean (sorry Butch, can't go over 90% for you).

And why another 11 years until Butch Reynolds' 43.29 could be lowered. And another 17 years before Michael Johnson's epic 43.18 was approached, let alone broken? Because the 400 recordholders have given us the greatest performances in all of track since 1968. And I'm quite certain that three are 100% clean (sorry Butch, can't go over 90% for you).

And I am quite certain that you are childishly naive.

I don't know about "100% clean." How about clean enough and leave it at that. They are epic, generational performances no matter how you look at it.

What you state about the strength of the 200 and 400 record historically is inarguable.

Ever notice how 99.0% of Letsrun posters are little white boy distance pansies and 99.9% of them never saw a needle in a locker room before. But they're PED experts, every last one of them? I'm 110% certain that Tomato Canova is one of those skinny little white boys. Wouldn't know what a needle, weight room or a man's race looked like.

Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:

Your theory is garbage. Ever heard of the TOUR DE FRANCE ??? Ever heard of MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL?? (I could go on and on and on, but I won't) I'm pretty sure that in "richer" and "whiter" nations there has been rampant doping in many different sports. There was no "tight control" of pharmaceuticals. And even if there was, drugs can easily be obtained by individuals from other less-controlled nations, and easily used by the individuals residing in the rich/white nations.

In the big scheme of things Russia is not a "poor" country (maybe avg individuals are, but the gov't and nation as a whole is not), and is very white, and they have had the largest, and longest systematic doping of any country.

So what exactly is your point?

Track is not much of a career in the developed world. If you're among the very best Americans, you can have an upper middle class income until your mid-30s, and then you're done and you have no career. Pro cyclists and baseball players, on the other hand, stand to make enough in a decade to be financially secure for life.

And Russia is most definitely a poor nation. They are ranked 48th in GDP per capita, which is actually misleading because those numbers are hugely bolstered by energy exports, which only support the handful of billionaires that have looted the country. They have no real industry.

In any event, I don't understand why you discount the average income of Russians (under $10k/year, incidentally). It's the average that creates incentives. If you aren't a family member of a kleptocrat in Russia, you have no real opportunity to improve your life. But being a track and field star in Russia is a viable route to a middle class (or better) life. And it's not just that there aren't other opportunities available; it's also that there's more upside because Russia's athletes are financially supported by the state. That's what makes doping irresistible.

Frankly, this is why I blame the governing bodies so much more than the athletes. It's hard for me to feel too self-righteous about someone doping to escape abject poverty in Russia or Kenya when I grew up in a country where my parents were able to buy me a new SUV when I was 16 so I could drive myself to soccer tournaments.

You make excellent points. However, rich white people are definitely not above doping, either, and America has its own advantages for doping (more money and doctors). See TdF, MLB, as the other guy said.

Definitely agree with you though about not really judging people from East Africa or Russia for doping to get out of horrendous poverty.

Anyway, WvN's race was amazing. The WR was extremely strong and he beat a loaded field. Hat's off and I can't wait to see him vs Kirani James for another 4-8 years.

He's takin' yo mamma 2 bed!

OH SNAP

Tomato Canova wrote:

A good stuff! What is he taking?

Me thinks WADA should do a spectrum analysis of Granny's "special" oatmeal raisin cookies she's been feeding Van NK.

Vivalarepublica wrote:

Thought he would come back to Merritt and James after that blazing first 100, but he didn't look behind him and stepped on the last gear in the homestretch. I think Lane 8 was an advantage for Van Niekirk, just made him run for his life.

I agree!

I think Wade would have won from any lane, but lane 8 probably made the record possible. Wade runs the same way all the time and I don't think lanes make a difference to him. So many 400m race have been won from lane 8 that people need to stop talking about it. Although I think Wade would won no matter what lane he is was in, but Merritt and James definitely tightened up when they realized how far Wade was ahead coming off the turn. Instead focusing on staying relaxed and maintaining form to the finish line, they tried to accelerate about 80 meters out and they basically killed them with about 20 meters to go. In the 400m, you can't accelerate past 300m, you need to be where you want to be and maintain to the finish line. You win by not losing speed, not by to go faster. If you attempt to accelerate coming off the turn, you may as well be running a 380 meter race. I think Merritt and James were in near WR shape, but Wade put so much pressure on them that they choked.

Plugged into the MacMillan Calculator...HOW LONG UNTIL VAN NIEKIRK ANNIHILATES THE DISTANCE WRs??!?!?

100m

10.3

-

200m

20.6

400m

43.0

600m

01:08.9

800m

01:34.4

1500m

03:14.4

1600m

03:29.0

1Mi

03:30.3

2Mi

07:26.8

5Km

12:10

6Km

14:43

10Km

25:16

10Mi

42:14

1/2 Mar

56:20

Mar

1:58:34

50Km

2:23:49

50Mi

4:23:03

100Km

5:46:34

100Mi

11:24:33

Universe World and Human Physical Limits: was the very LAST milestone set at Rio's 400 meters?

Rio, Aug 14, 2016, late evening local time: South Africa's Van Niekerk breaks Michael Johnson'sworld record from 1999.

Does this complete the Age of Discovery for (Measurable) Limits?

Headlines omit Van Niekerk - [COLOR=Red]Why[/COLOR]?

Michael Johnson's 400 world record falls as LaShawn Merritt takes bronze medal: No mention of who set the world record.

Ultimately for the same reason why the Aug 2009 articles omitted any mention of the milestone that Last Prophet recognized.

The "downplay importance" psy-op goes in this case beyond the agenda of completing the destruction of athletics.

It's also part of preventing human cattle to realize what milestones are being set.

From Jamaica's Lightning Bolt 2009 to South Africa's Van Nikerk 2016

Did Van Niekerk set a milestone in the Age of Discovery of Human Physical Performance? Was it actuallyt the very last one?

In any case Van Niekerk's world record was paradoxically set

- at the end of a show the Illuminati Grand Master reduced to a parody of simulated reality.

- just before Usain Bolt would set yet another milestone, this time only in the 100 m History of World Championships and Olympic Games, adding to seven consecutive global titles.

The same number of titles as the greatest cyclist ever got in the Tour de France before he was executed by the illuminati.

Notes

Aug 15, 2016 - Michael Johnson's 400 world record falls as LaShawn Merritt takes bronze medal

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lashawn-merritt-olympics-400-000000121.html

All in Blog - Van Niekerk 400 m milestone added as introduciton to original Aug 2009 article

http://end-of-an-age.blogspot.com/2009/08/usain-bolt-maximum-speed-human-physical.html

Just over 10.75 average (= 43s/4) actually. Still ridiculous. And the pacing was far from even: 10.7, 9.8, 10.5, and 12.03 is claimed

run with the wom wrote:

Folks. Think about how great this is...

VNK ran just a fraction over 10.5 per hundred meters X 4 -- bleeping amazing!

How many people in the world can run just one 10.5? Damn few.

Lee Evans run did benefit from both altitude and great competition ... Larry James (look him up). And remember that Michael Johnson also set the 200 meter world record. VNK is in that world along with Bolt.

Tomato Canova wrote:

Look, when EPO was introducted to athletics in mid-1990s, there were only few white runners with improbable improvements. Virtually all the dopers were Moroccans, Algerians, Ethiopians and Kenyans. Why? Ask yourself.

Track and field is a Third World sport with pitiful financial rewards and athletes from developed countries are doing it rather as their hobby.

No, sorry, this argument doesn't fly. OK, I am not saying there is NOTHING to it, but it's mostly garbage. There are PLENTY of upper middle class people that have cheated at sports, and cheated at all sorts of things of life, *Even when they didn't need to* from a financial standpoint (i.e., they could still have been well of in other ways). Greed and the competitive drive to BE THE BEST is what drives people to cheat, as much as financial rewards.

And "when EPO was introduced to athletics" coincided nicely with "when prize $ REALLY came to marathons and athletics" and "when Ethiopia and Kenya got their acts together and started, recruiting, training and sending many more athletes to international competitions", compared to the smattering they sent in the past. You can't disentangle these confounders. They ALL influenced the drop in times. You can't solely say: EPO introduced, times dropped, there is your causation. Nope, correlation is all it is.

And yes, Americans suddenly breaking 13:00 with seeming ease (ritz, TEg, Sol easily several times, Rupp easily could have, etc) when the WORLD RECORD was not so long ago, 12:58, held by a mega-talent and supposed doper, Aouita.....well, then that's as big a red flag as any one you can raise against huge drops in African times.

And of course American distance runners could be very rich if they were good enough, and DRUGGED UP ENOUGH, to beat the best in the world. But they simply aren't capable.

Read my reply to the other guy, since you were basically making the same point. Sorry, not buying the "only poor people" cheat theory. Great of you to condescendingly look at that way though and feel bad for the position they are in/the choice they face.

(and if it was ALL about the $, most africans, like Geb or Bekele would have retired young. They made so much $ for someone from E. Africa, they could have easily quit and been rich for life. But they kept on going for glory. It's about the glory, you know? And according to you, they kept on drugging all those years, because.......once poor, always a poor mindset, and once a poor cheater, always a poor cheater mindset?

Nope, not buying it. )