Is Ledecky clean?

Rich & white? Must be alright? wrote:

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

You're all a bunch of cynical pinheads. Idle speculation with no basis in fact. My suggestion is to let the testers do their jobs, watch the Olympics and wish you had the talent and drive to either have been there, or were there. Then STFU.[

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I don't forget or justify anything, and we're discussing swimming (and the US swimmers specifically) not track, cycling, weightlifting etc. The structure of USA swimming these days and the USA Swimming club structure makes it next to impossible to get away with anything. You likely have the occasional issue, IE Jessica Hardy but those are few and far between. I can't comment about swimmers in other countries just what I know about the structure of things here in the US.

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Well, be that as it may, and what I know about the USA Swimming structure and integrity of the coaches and orginazation, that's my assessment. I stand by it.

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Katie Ledecky (whom the post is about) is not Lance Armstrong. She's a 19 year old kid (just 15 in her previous olympics) who lives with her parents for christ sake. Would take some despicable parents to put their kid through that. While of course I don't know every swimmer and every coach in the US, I know enough (future olympic gold medalist included that I trained with in an age group club.....

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Well then, please provide me the evidence that Ledecky dopes. As far as my "mild" personal experience, I've been a competitive swimmer my entire life, and been associated with a fairly large number of USA Swimming clubs, athletes, parents and coaches, in a number of capacities. Not even a hint of doping in any. I would suggest to you that my experience is considerably more then the sum total of all posters on this board, but certainly feel free to form your own uneducated opinion.

So you believe that USA swimming is incorruptible based in your knowledge of the sport. It is possible to have faith in one or many swimmers and a sport but still posses acceptance that swimmers and coaches are humans and can make mistakes just like any other sport. Your faith in the sport is dangerous if not held with an open mind. Your "knowledge" of the sport must also include all the shameful lifetime bans for coaches under rule 3. You can't paint a sport based on 1 or 2 or even 100 such individuals. Not fair.

Not is it fair to simply say you (an anonymous poster) know the sport so well that your judgments should supercede others based on common sense and their own personal experience.

Swimming needs advocates like you but don't kid yourself you come in with a predisposed bias on which you base your faith. There were a lot of Russians who like you would have sworn on their faith too.

Again I think ledecky is clean. She got the golds and deserves the Wheaties box. She is a hero. To me. I got no problem if my kids grow up like her. Phelps not so much. But you are blind if you think swimming in the USA is immune to doping - and a bit foolish if you think it is so based on a culture of race and wealth.

And candidly you have gone on too too long prattling about your experience. Take yourself to the swimming boards where the topic is bandied about quite a bit instead of playing your imaginary swim experience trump card. And playing it and playing it and playing it. You're a believer, we get it.

Olympic Truth wrote:

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

Do you have evidence that this occurs in the sport of swimming here in the US? If so, please provide..........articles, data, conversations with swimmers you've had etc. Also, if you have specific inside knowledge that this has occurred specific to Katie Ledecky, since she is the subject of the thread.

First its funny to me that you don't get the Colonel Jessup reference. That was funny. Second, I went to 2 Olys and hung with Phelps, no he didn't say I take PED. But as an athlete you get a pretty good sense based on behavior. I hung around the swimmers alot at the Olys.because are events finish close to each other.

I do not have on Ledecky since she is the subject of this thread, but since the subject matter or her uses PED in general and the test are not very good. Swimmers have got caught and she is blowing them away. Please provide a common sense argument as to why anyone should believe she doesn't use. And her age, family background are not acceptable. Just say

"she is someone I know and YES she is soooooooooooooo much more talented than others she can be clean and they can take and she will win by incredible margins and set WR because I said so"

Olympic Truth wrote:

Rich & white? Must be alright? wrote:

So you believe that USA swimming is incorruptible based in your knowledge of the sport. It is possible to have faith in one or many swimmers and a sport but still posses acceptance that swimmers and coaches are humans and can make mistakes just like any other sport. Your faith in the sport is dangerous if not held with an open mind. Your "knowledge" of the sport must also include all the shameful lifetime bans for coaches under rule 3. You can't paint a sport based on 1 or 2 or even 100 such individuals. Not fair.

Not is it fair to simply say you (an anonymous poster) know the sport so well that your judgments should supercede others based on common sense and their own personal experience.

Swimming needs advocates like you but don't kid yourself you come in with a predisposed bias on which you base your faith. There were a lot of Russians who like you would have sworn on their faith too.

Again I think ledecky is clean. She got the golds and deserves the Wheaties box. She is a hero. To me. I got no problem if my kids grow up like her. Phelps not so much. But you are blind if you think swimming in the USA is immune to doping - and a bit foolish if you think it is so based on a culture of race and wealth.

And candidly you have gone on too too long prattling about your experience. Take yourself to the swimming boards where the topic is bandied about quite a bit instead of playing your imaginary swim experience trump card. And playing it and playing it and playing it. You're a believer, we get it.

I don't need to say anything this guy did a good job. By the way I have an MA, 2 BAs and I did take some PhD classes,but stopped. I have been published in a few journals, used for reference in WSJ during the Floyd Landis scandal.

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

Olympic Truth wrote:

First its funny to me that you don't get the Colonel Jessup reference. That was funny. Second, I went to 2 Olys and hung with Phelps, no he didn't say I take PED. But as an athlete you get a pretty good sense based on behavior. I hung around the swimmers alot at the Olys.because are events finish close to each other.

I do not have on Ledecky since she is the subject of this thread, but since the subject matter or her uses PED in general and the test are not very good. Swimmers have got caught and she is blowing them away. Please provide a common sense argument as to why anyone should believe she doesn't use. And her age, family background are not acceptable. Just say

"she is someone I know and YES she is soooooooooooooo much more talented than others she can be clean and they can take and she will win by incredible margins and set WR because I said so"

Simple math..............she set her WR 2 years ago, and since then has come down a mere 2 seconds. If she was doping would you not expect a much larger drop? And also do you then assume that she was doping as a 15 to 17 year old while still living with her parents and going to HS? Defies common sense.

Olympic Truth wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

There is really no way to prove anybody is clean. I mean, at least that is my belief.

It isn't necessary, the burden is on proving somebody is not clean. At least in eligibility to compete.

The court of public opinion is so different, but I'm honestly not sure it is worth fighting in that arena. You are either allowed to compete or not.

I really do feel bad for clean athletes, whoever they may be.

So do I. Many small countries have talented people, but no real access to both drugs and training. And truthfully, once you start performing, people approach you and it becomes obvious that if you want to be competitive you use or be OK with losing. Many athletes decide to compete and lose, while developing skills or make connections. I did, I went got my Master's started on my Phd, found another industry. All my research was on the development of PEDs.

Hitemwiththehein wrote:

She won a gold medal at age 15. I may be naive but it would be pretty sick of her parents and coaches to give her drugs in her early teenage years, I just cannot believe that would happen. Her family is also very wealthy and Ivy League educated. There is nothing financially for them to gain doping a teenager... So their only motivation would be obsessive competitive narcissism which does not fit the mold at all. She's a talent.

Possibly the most famous case of recent times was Geneviève Jeanson, a Canadian rider who excelled on the road. After lots of rumours, then a positive test which she disputed, she eventually spilled the beans a couple of years ago, saying that she had been using EPO since the age of 15/16 under the guidance of her trainer and her father.