Torrence Speaks Out Against Lagat After 5k Final

I honestly just feel bad for Nick and Mercado. Both are good, positive dudes and looked so uncomfortable during Torrence's whole belligerent spiel there. Though they may or may not feel as Torrence does, I don't think their intention with this video was to get wrapped up in the negativity and bad publicity that those comments are attracting. Lots of potential to harm careers here, and I wouldn't be hanging around Torrence much anymore if I'm those two guys.

but Lagat wasn't mediocre in college. he was fu$king spectacular. i watched him run 146 multiple times in the late 90s at wsu w/ ZERO competition (albeit he had a rabbit take him thru 50 flat 400m) on WINDY dayson drugs or not, genetically he is a freak of nature

Bob Villalobos wrote:

What does Torrence have to gain by calling out Lagat? Nothing. Plenty to lose. He's just speaking his mind. He thinks Lagat is dirty. So do most distance running fans who understand how weird it is for a 41 year old man to close in 52. A guy who was mediocre in college.

like Lance said in the early 90s when he was only a regional standout in Texas, you've got to dope to hang with the Peloton (even in the back)!

i'd say most, not all, t&f athletes heading to Oly Rio have/are doped/ing

i'd dope myself if i was at that level. probability of getting caught is relatively low if you are smart about cycles

have any of you watched Victor Conte's youtube videos on how f'ing EASY it is to avoid testing?????????

f&ck me - newbies!

Who is he to talk trash about Dad? Vete a la verga Torrence, vete a Peru y dejenos en paz puto. No manches, tu no podrias tener un lugar en el equipo olympico de los estados unidos. Vete a maldito Machu Pichu

lost all respect for torrence !!

LR Rule #1-- Never disparage Big Wave Dave on these boards. The guy is a king here... even if he does run downhill.

Look who's talking wrote:

Consider the source.

Phantasy Star wrote:

lol what an embarrassing rant from a has-been who trained with master doper Jama Aden.

True is as doped as the rest of them but unlike Lagat he has a crappy attitude and personality.

Lagat > True and Torrence combined

Daddy can still kick, biatches.

Sorry you're so jaded, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Ben is a clas act and the epitome of hard work in this sport. Stop talking.

Rojo,

Looking forward to this investigative journalism read. Thank you

das;fkhjasdkfhdsa wrote:

but Lagat wasn't mediocre in college. he was fu$king spectacular.

i watched him run 146 multiple times in the late 90s at wsu w/ ZERO competition (albeit he had a rabbit take him thru 50 flat 400m) on WINDY days

on drugs or not, genetically he is a freak of nature

We must have been watching different races, because I remember him getting smoked by Jennings and Stember on the regular.

David Torrence is a lil bitch n snitch at that

If his legs did more running than his mouth he would be going to places

someone tell him 2 sit his monkey ass down

I hate men who behave like bitches

Fuk Ben True 2 , if you wanna win a race then you go out there n win a race no excuses no bull shit

Maybe I missed it -- where do you find that the A-Sample was frozen before testing?My reading of the "lagatfull.doc" report, published at "letsrun" in 2003:- Both A and B samples were mis-handled- Neither A nor B sample was frozen, until the refrigerated B-Sample six days later- Both A and B samples showed EPO modifying enzymatic activity- The enzymatic activity had also altered the controls "rhEpo and Nesp"- The B sample failed to corroborate the A sample findings (this doesn't mean the B-sample test result was a "negative", but that it was different than the A-sample result) because of the six days of progress of the enzymatic activity (reportedly present in both samples)- After the failed corroboration, and upon closer re-inspection, the A-sample did not match synthetic EPO references either- Had the B-Sample been frozen right away, this would have corroborated the A-sample finding, resulting in a tragic outcome for Lagat, as the disturbing enzymatic activity would have gone unnoticed- All five "experts" involved in the B-sample analysis unanimously agreed that there was no synthetic EPO in either urine sample

Butthurt wrote:

Torrence is "just saying it" because he didn't have the chops to actually make the US team hence why he's going to Peru

Incredible.

David Torrence is going to run for Peru at the Olympics.

David Torrence is not going to run at the US Track and Field Olympic Trials.

David Torrence then thinks that it is a good idea for David Torrence to give us all his commentary and opinions about the US Track and Field Olympic Trials...which he does not want to actually compete at today.

Then he makes comments with evidence consisting of "I have heard multiple rumors".

He probably got his information on "multiple rumors" from this forum.

His statement of "'The clean B sample' may have been suspect" is not correct. The B sample was not refrigerated for days, so any analysis to determine if it was positive or negative(clean) would not be reliable. There was never a 'clean B sample that may have been suspect'.

There was never a negative(clean) B sample result or a positive B sample result, since no result would be reliable.

David Torrence does not know what he is talking about in reference to the test from 2003. His statement is not correct.

Wow.

Tyson Gay seems like a nice guy and he got caught.

Wasn't Lagat's B-sample analyzed in Cologne?The blood samples can be used for prevalence estimates of large groups, but are useless for individual analysis.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Bob Villalobos wrote:

What does Torrence have to gain by calling out Lagat? Nothing. Plenty to lose. He's just speaking his mind. He thinks Lagat is dirty. So do most distance running fans who understand how weird it is for a 41 year old man to close in 52. A guy who was mediocre in college.

The lab that got Lagat off on a failed b-sample was run by Martial Saugy, with Saugy apparently present for the b-sample test event.

At this point, it's known the IAAF was using Martial Saugy as a "plan B" in case they couldn't sufficiently bury a doping controversy that mattered.

We also know that Saugy's actions are increasingly conflicting. He was an author on IAAF blood analysis (doping) research in 2014 using years of blood tests. Then denies those samples are of any use at all in Radcliffe's excuses.

revisionist history ftw wrote:

das;fkhjasdkfhdsa wrote:

but Lagat wasn't mediocre in college. he was fu$king spectacular.

i watched him run 146 multiple times in the late 90s at wsu w/ ZERO competition (albeit he had a rabbit take him thru 50 flat 400m) on WINDY days

on drugs or not, genetically he is a freak of nature

We must have been watching different races, because I remember him getting smoked by Jennings and Stember on the regular.

Bingo, I remember seeing this too. Live. But maybe I was dreaming. Anyone who thinks Lagat's 3:26 was clean, hanging right with El G, a poster boy for doping, is completely delusion. Lying to themselves. And EPO probably has long term benefits. El G had an amazing powerful stride and Kiprop has a gorgeous long stride. That's why some people think they were/are clean. Not so.

What should bother you is athletes like Torrence complaining about the way the sport has always been, as though they have a right to some other sort of sport or expected it to be different. There is little sadder in athletics than someone who claims a doper robbed them, when in fact, the reality is that they just bought WADA's marketing campaign without thinking critically about it.

If your life depended on it, gun to your head, how many of you would say that his 3:26 was clean? Let's just use common sense here. To go from 3:37 to 3:26 in a few years, going from losing to Stember and Jennings as a previous poster noted, to beating the best in the world (who were also doped), it doesn't pass the "smell test". I'd be shocked if 3/4 or more of you didn't say he was doping back then. If you don't care about him doping because that was the era and he had to do it to keep up, ala the most epic liar of all time, Lance, that's your prerogative. But I have a major problem with it, especially in the context of taking Olympic and World Championship births away from non doped Americans (at least some of them are clean). Nobody thinks Webb was doped for instance. I think he came in 4th one year (2008?). Leer came in 4th a bunch of times, behind Lagat. There is no way he ever doped. Stuff like that. Very upsetting. This performance last night was another illustration of it. Long term benefits of EPO use (or short term?) showing up. Talented of course, but a former doper, yes of course. And Torrence is right about all the smiling phoniness...and get your kids off the track!!!! This isn't Chuck E Cheese, it's a track meet.

There is no question Lagat is incredibly gifted.

And there is no question he technically passed all of his drug tests.

Problem is, statistics tell us that there is still something like >90% chance he doped based on his Positive A and Negative B.

Add on top of that that it occurred in 90s Kenya track and field and I think the number jumps.

I my mind Lagat almost certainly did dope...I also understand that it is a worthless opinion.

A well researched article seems like the right course of action. I would look forward to reading that.