Oregon and Cheserek should be ashamed and embarrassed

As someone else said, I don't think Ches is a savvy racer or smart enough to do anything other than what his coach tells him which can bite you in the ass when it comes down to it.

I would say the Oregon coaches get most of the blame and kudos to the other runners for not letting Ches use them as a sacrificial pacer. At the end of the day, it is Penn Relays, not the Olympics, Pac 12s or NCAAs. Just go for it and try to do something special. It is meets like these where a team can go for something great and there is little consequence. Oregon has a mid-d/distance team that won a team Indoor title and they cant win the 4xMile at Penn? They should have gone out their and showed how good the whole team is (not just Ches) and run fast from the gun and challenged anyone to go with them. That's what Michigan did when they ran the current Penn Record. Its what Texas and Arkansas did when they had stacked teams. It is what seems to happen in the women's races at Penn virtually every year.

Virgin V. Yifter: fast forward to 5:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB8hEc3yIwE

Only difference is that Yifter took the bait. Williamsz didn't. Georgetown did and then didn't. Cornell did a lap later.

clerk wrote:

Virgin V. Yifter: fast forward to 5:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB8hEc3yIwE

Only difference is that Yifter took the bait. Williamsz didn't. Georgetown did and then didn't. Cornell did a lap later.

The only difference? Are you retarded? If you want to compare apples to apples, Virgins race would have been the same if Cheserek ran 4:00 pace for 940 meters (with surges), got tired of taking the burden of the pace, so he pulled out to lane 2 and stopped, then Williamsz took the pace at 4:04 pace for 230m to the 1170m mark, then Cheserek took the lead at 4:00 pace again until 48 meters to go when Williams jumped him.

Does that resemble the 79 World Cup in any way, shape or form? No. Hell no.

What he hell was the Gtown kid doing? Did he make eye contact with his coach who told him not to lead? And if so, why would he do that?

He looked like he was ready to start rolling like Soratos did indoors. That was a really fast 15m surge.

OverTheHillAndBack wrote:

Love the hate wrote:

What is classless about my post? Calling young men in college "pricks" and all the venom about Cheserek is classless.

HE IS CALLING THE OREGON DUCKS BEHAVIOR ON THE T&F CLASSLESS, NOT YOUR POST DIRECTLY.

Stupid DUCK.

The post I quoted wasn't in itself that classless - just douchey. Oregon started getting really braggadocios when they started bringing in all-american transfers and landing the best collegiate runners of all-time, and it is not becoming. It's not how real champions act. It's not how other successful programs/fans act.

The classlessness comes from 1) the bi-weekly "Does Colorado/Stanford/any other team that didn't choke like Oregon at NCAA XC even have a track team" threads and 2) Just generally, their willful association with Salazar, who is a grade A as$hole and terrible excuse for a human being.

For the record, I don't buy into George's Star Wars dichotomy of the anchors of this race. Nova fans are a pain, too, and calling Ches a pr!ck just shows the bitterness of the poster.

Classless vs. douchey? Really, you think that's a difference worth noting???

What's classless is 7 pages of posts, supposedly about race tactics, that are primarily venom and attack directed at Cheserek and Oregon. Nothing Love the hate wrote was classless.

For an actual "non-hate" inspired review of the race see The Leader's Dilemma (http://therunnereclectic.com/2015/04/27/the-leaders-dilemma/ ) which is listed on LR home page (but not highlighted in any obvious way). Of interest is Waldron's response to the lone commenter, where Waldron challenges those who claim Pre wouldn't have run a race like Ches did by pointing out that Williamsz drafted for 7/8ths of the race - hardly in the style of Pre either. Also Waldron challenges the commenter who implied that Ches' race wasn't honest or ethical.

As far as attacking Oregon because of the behavior/posts of a few it is true they have some fanatical fans, as do most schools. But this thread was all about pent up hostility towards Oregon - don't pretend it's something else.

PS - And as far as it goes, Arkansas is a fine program. But not without detractors for how it has heavily recruited foreign athletes - in

From Track & Field News (http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/index.php/display-article?arId=85152 )

2013 NCAA Div. I Indoor National Championships held recently in Arkansas. As expected, the hometown favorite Razorbacks took home the team title, but what was not known to the casual fan was how they went about doing it. Arkansas scored an impressive 74 points to win the team title, but of the 14 athletes that contributed to those 74 points, 8 were from foreign countries. Those 8 international athletes scored a whopping 41pts (55%) of the 74 points for their team.

In contrast, the University of Oregon women won their fourth straight indoor national title with only the aid of one German athlete (lead off the distance medley relay; placing 8th). That German athlete only contributed 1/4th of a point in the 56 points the Ducks used to win the team title.

Additionally, Arkansas had the most foreign athletes entered in the meet with 8 entries. Florida and Wisconsin teams placed 2nd and 3rd respectively with only one international athlete combined between the two. (Mohammed Ahmed, Wisconsin - from Ontario).

Also, see Wall Street Journal (

)

Arkansas men's track coach Chris Bucknam is hoping that the Olympic gold medal in long jump this summer goes to a foreigner, Bahamian Raymond Higgs.

Higgs is one of 11 international athletes competing for Bucknam on the University of Arkansas men's track team. Hailing from France, Jamaica, Ireland, Estonia and elsewhere, these athletes typically receive scholarships to train under Bucknam, a highly esteemed American track coach.

"I don't look at this as feeding the enemy," he said.

Nice try, A Duck.

Are you forgetting where Cheserek is from, how old he really is, and how many of the Ducks points he was responsible over the last 2 years? Oregon loves to complain about foreigners when someone else has them. When they have them (going all the way back to the '60s) it's OK.

But it's all about being a hater?

I find it interesting that in the recent history of the Penn Relays, some of the most memorable moments are Oregon studs (Bowerman Finalists and winners) getting outkicked by an underdog.

Ches getting outkicked by Jordy Williamsz in the 4xMile.

Laura Roesler getting outkicked by Emily Lipari in the 4x8.

Andrew Wheating getting nipped by Robby Andrews in the 4x8.

Williamsz, Lipari and Andrews were all studs (two have won NCAA titles) but Ches, Roesler, and Wheating were certainly favorites in these situations.

There is a difference, so yes I should distinguish, and his post did reek of arrogance.

I agree that there is too much baseless bashing of Ches in the thread.

Having spent time on these boards since about it's inception, and spending time with athletes and fans from a myriad of programs, I can say confidently that Oregon fans are among my least favorite to congregate with. Please tell me another group of alums/fans of a program that act like the Duck ones do on these boards?

Some of the local Duck fans I bump into didn't even know who Jenkins was at Northeastern - now they worship him.

Lastly it seemed like you were actually trying to make an argument that Arkansas isn't better than Oregon in the last couple of paragraphs. You should give up that losing battle.

You guys are a bunch of ninnies. Someone said that Oregon is dooshy because of threads that are posted on here? How dumb is that.

Of course Oregon has a ton of fans (including annoying ones), they're the top program and are attracting many of the top American runners. Fact is, if Colorado or Stanford was winning with this regularity- both team wise and individually- they would have crazy fanboys and haters alike. It's the American and Letsrhn way!

The thing that alarms me is the amount of grown ass adults who are so clearly against or for these guys in scary ways. That includes Malmo. I love track and field and want to watch all the races, but guys, come the hell on.

You Know Me wrote:

You guys are a bunch of ninnies. Someone said that Oregon is dooshy because of threads that are posted on here? How dumb is that.

Of course Oregon has a ton of fans (including annoying ones), they're the top program and are attracting many of the top American runners. Fact is, if Colorado or Stanford was winning with this regularity- both team wise and individually- they would have crazy fanboys and haters alike. It's the American and Letsrhn way!

The thing that alarms me is the amount of grown ass adults who are so clearly against or for these guys in scary ways. That includes Malmo. I love track and field and want to watch all the races, but guys, come the hell on.

Agreed. Who would have ever thought an anonymous message board could lead to invective, character assassination, rumor mongering and the like. I find it particularly illustrative of the self-righteous nature of so many posts when someone claims by virtue of their experience with one or a few people from a training group, university, etc. they can make judgments about much larger groups of people.

A psychiatrist could have a heyday with all the vicarious living, projection, overcompensation, inferiority complex and other various ailments in evidence in this thread alone.

In closing, a post that claimed Oregon/Cheserek employed bad tactics and therefore deserved to lose could be rationally argued and supported with evidence (as could a counter argument). But that has hardly been the case with this thread.

Excellent Post. I too have felt that a good psychiatrist could make a fortune trying to bring some sanity to a few of these posters here. A lot of people show a healthy interest in Oregon for the interest it is generating in our sport. At the same time, some people seem to hate Oregon. Why would someone hate Oregon? Could it have to do with a rivalry jealousy? Or maybe just an inferiority complex, with jealousy to boot? Whatever the reason, it isn't based on anything sane, and probably something that only a good psychiatrist would understand.

Yes, anyone who is critical of Oregon must hate them, the must be insane. I think a psychiatrist would take issue with your logic and spend many afternoons trying to ameliorate your paranoia.

herr doktor wrote:

Yes, anyone who is critical of Oregon must hate them, the must be insane. I think a psychiatrist would take issue with your logic and spend many afternoons trying to ameliorate your paranoia.

That's not what he's saying. He's saying that if adults think that the athletes are pricks because of how they race, they may have issues. I was saying earlier that the guy who said (paraphrase) "the Oregon team became really douchy when all these threads started popping up saying...." is likely not a sane individual.

That's like me saying the Duke basketball team is full of a-holes because my neighbor is a jerk.

You Know Me wrote:

That's not what he's saying. He's saying that if adults think that the athletes are pricks because of how they race, they may have issues. I was saying earlier that the guy who said (paraphrase) "the Oregon team became really douchy when all these threads started popping up saying...." is likely not a sane individual.

.

If you believe that then you are not likely sane. When I read, "the Oregon team became really douchy when all these threads started popping up saying...." the only thing I think of is that the guy is not likely old enough to vote.

How did you come to that conclusion from this post?

You Know Me wrote:

The thing that alarms me is the amount of grown ass adults who are so clearly against or for these guys in scary ways.

It's bad for NCAA track to be dominated by so few schools. The NCAA itself is bad for track. Amateurism throttles opportunity and participation, and the competition model is stupid. Nothing matters during the season, it is all about qualifying, and everyone with a chance to score in the finals sails through easily. Who the hell wants to watch that?

Diamond League is where it's at. Athlete vs athlete, everything counts, fast performances strongly encouraged every time. Track isn't a team sport at heart.

Crammed wrote:

You Know Me wrote:

That's not what he's saying. He's saying that if adults think that the athletes are pricks because of how they race, they may have issues. I was saying earlier that the guy who said (paraphrase) "the Oregon team became really douchy when all these threads started popping up saying...." is likely not a sane individual.

.

If you believe that then you are not likely sane. When I read, "the Oregon team became really douchy when all these threads started popping up saying...." the only thing I think of is that the guy is not likely old enough to vote.

Ha, right. You are breaking my disdain down to criticize one small piece (LRC threads) of my large body of exposure to Oregon runners and fans that have led me to my conclusion that they have less class.

Again, tell me any other program's fans that act this way? I probably wouldn't like them either.

And people keep saying the hatred is because they are the best. They aren't. Check the books, guys.

You Know Me wrote:

Fact is, if Colorado or Stanford was winning with this regularity- both team wise and individually- they would have crazy fanboys and haters alike. It's the American and Letsrhn way!

When Stanford had the greatest American-born NCAA xc performance, they didn't act this way. When Colorado has one it's several team and individual titles, they didn't act this way. When Arkansas won a zillion titles, they didn't act this way.

Your premise is false and I'm guessing you are 4 years old if you think that Oregon is the only program with a history of success.