Beth Sullivan making headlines at UT

Positive Contribution wrote:

Lion Hunter wrote:

The story does appear to be going viral, at least as viral as one could expect for track & field.

The Volunteer forum was an interesting read because those are football fans and there clearly was some sentiment that BAS must be a kook for pulling this off in the way that she did.

Karma is a bee-otch Beth!

The football crazies in win at all cost SEC country criticizing BAS for this should be all one needs to hear.

is that you Wade?....Brady?

You are right. Track is not a business at any NCAA school. Track, as a non-revenue generating sport, has never paid its way. The alleged poor behavior at U of T is common. No checks and balances exist in the NCAA system to reign in this type of thing. An AD who likes the track coach is all it takes for the coach to keep their job regardless of their behavior.

If D1 track and field was truly a business, it would of shutdown years ago.

A lot of new coaches coming in to a new program want to run off athletes recruited by the former coach. Usually they do it by making those athletes so miserable they want to leave or quit.

This coach is the first one I ever heard of that that flat out cuts them from the team before the first meet or game.

Maybe she is doing them a favor. They are still considered blue chip high school recruits that she doesn't want.

A freshman female 400 hurdler should have no problem transferring now to numerous schools and get the same package. Even if they have to wait a year but that is what I don't like.

Positive Contribution wrote:

Fred Gwynne wrote:

Since Sullivan has been coaching for a long time why is there no former athletes that ran for her saying anything positive or negative about what it is like to be coached by her.

I know she is generally not liked but is that by former runners of hers or just observers?

Former athlete of hers. No one is surprised by this. All my former teammates I've talked to have said "sounds about right for her". It's about her being the greatest (she thinks shes a gift to the world). Athletes are an means to an end to her.

I know you probably can't give too many specifics, but can you give any examples of her showing her true colors?

As a parent of a student athlete this hits home. To deny these student athletes the right to train and compete after just two to three weeks into practice is disheartening. The message that UT sends is that NCAA needs to define their guidelines. If this happens to track and field athletes, then parents of student athletes need to realize that it can happen in all sports. Coaches are given a contract to perform and they are at least given an opportunity to display their coaching abilities. These young athletes were denied an opportunity to justify their scholarship. NCAA and The SEC clearly needs to address this issue.

George Atlas wrote:

A freshman female 400 hurdler should have no problem transferring now to numerous schools and get the same package. Even if they have to wait a year but that is what I don't like.

If they transfer to an SEC school they (1) have to sit out next year, (2) lose a year of eligibility, and (3) get no coaching or experience this year. They are getting completely screwed over.

This shows what a lie the NCAA propaganda is. The idea that NCAA athletics are conducted for the benefit of "student-athletes" is complete BS. Coaches like Alford-Sullivan are only out for themselves and schools only care about generating money from football and basketball. The claim that there is an educational component to NCAA athletics is utter BS.

These boards draw some of the stoopidist people on God's Green Earth. Think Coach D. But this has got to be the most idiotic irrational piece of drivel that I can remember. It's time to compile a Bottom 10; but it will take a mighty effort to drop below this nonsense.

Milwaukeean wrote:

By all accounts, Ms. Alford-Sullivan is not a well-liked person; by fellow coaches, by fans, by many of her former athletes. How does she keep getting jobs? I would understand maybe a little if she were an excellent coach, but her coaching skills are not that good and certainly don't offset her personality. Honestly, I don't get it.

She had some success at Penn State. Then again, the Big 10 has been a pillow fight for the past 10 years.

Tennessee Disgrace wrote:

George Atlas wrote:

A freshman female 400 hurdler should have no problem transferring now to numerous schools and get the same package. Even if they have to wait a year but that is what I don't like.

If they transfer to an SEC school they (1) have to sit out next year, (2) lose a year of eligibility, and (3) get no coaching or experience this year. They are getting completely screwed over.

This shows what a lie the NCAA propaganda is. The idea that NCAA athletics are conducted for the benefit of "student-athletes" is complete BS. Coaches like Alford-Sullivan are only out for themselves and schools only care about generating money from football and basketball. The claim that there is an educational component to NCAA athletics is utter BS.

Is #2 (lose a year of eligibility) specific to SEC?

Would #2 apply if transferring to a non-SEC school?

There are no newspaper articles about the coaches who recruit a star, only to see them gain 10 lbs, straddle the line of academic eligibility lowering the team GPA, taking every chance to miss practice and milk the training room, never hit their times in training, often fail to complete workouts, yet the coach keeps them on scholarhip trying everything to motivate them to performance and attitude change.

Is this what is expected? Once you are given a scholarship out of HS, you just have to meet the barest of minimums and the scholarship is "guaranteed?"

How long does that coach keep their job for being "ethical" yet not producing? Or being "ethical" yet getting the reputation in state for being the place "where stars go to die." Because the parents and HS coaches surely aren't blaming the kid, they will blame the college coach.

I'm not saying this is what happened at Tennessee. I'm not saying the way UT handled is it right. I am saying that there is no "black and white clear cut single answer."

In this case the coach made a decision she didn't want some kids. If she felt they were going to be real STARS she wouldn't have cut them. She felt they were overscholarshipped by the previous administration.

She is honoring the scholarship for the year, which is mandated by the NCAA, but she is making it clear she would like them to leave at semester by not allowing them to practice with the team or use athletic facilities and telling them if they do stay for the year they will not compete.

The other alternative was what? Tell the kid in the first 2 weeks that given all that she has seen of them and knowing their scholarship, in her professional expert opinion they are going to have a hard time earning that level of scholarship for future years. She could encourage them to look for and would help them find a new place to go at semester, or they can compete and use a year of eligiblity and they will be having the same discussion at the end of the year. That might have been the nicest way to do it. But the kid likely still would have called home crying, the parents and club coaches would have been pissed, but likely no newspaper articles would have been generated.

Or it could happen like it usually happens. The coach just waits until the conference meet where the kid scores well below the scholarship, and then they bring them in at the end of the year and say, we are reducing or cancelling your aid because you failed to meet performance expectations. Informs them of their right to appeal, then goes to the appeal and shows data that says that an 80% scholarship means you must be a top 3 performer in the conference or else the team can't mathmatically win a confernce championship. Just like an academic award, you can study all you want and be great to the professors, but if you don't maintain a certain GPA the academic scholarship is cut or removed. The appeal is denied, and the athlete is crying, the parents and HS coaches are pissed and now it is June and the options for transfer are FAR FEWER than they are in October when you have an entire year to prepare.

lots of variables, but I understand the outcry.

Couldn't agree more. I've seen it too many times with some of the top talent in programs I've worked for coaching, academic advising, and working in student-athlete services at the D1 level.

whatthisguysaid wrote:

Couldn't agree more. I've seen it too many times with some of the top talent in programs I've worked for coaching, academic advising, and working in student-athlete services at the D1 level.

This is not the thread to blame the victims. This is all about the narcissistic coach.

NCAA reform for track could involve a requirement to have tryouts and a selection process to field a team. The Coach would then have to look out for the athlete's interests because getting them injured would reduce the ability to have a complete team at meets. This would eliminate a lot of the abuses that go on.

I'm not saying this is what happened at Tennessee. I'm not saying the way UT handled is it right. I am saying that there is no "black and white clear cut single answer.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6057002&page=7#ixzz3GDhaIcfr

Yes there is a clear cut answer. You do not cut freshmen before they even start!! Period! 100% the answer!!!

Victims?This should be a thread to have a discussion, not just dump on a coach because you have an ax to grind. Bruin Boy looks like he was cut from a team for sucking at some point in his career. Quotes in an article will never tell the story because coaches usually take the high ground with their comments. If she's taking the blame on herself and stating she cut them because she didn't see potential it doesn't shut any doors for the girls to transfer. If she said she cut them for laziness, or dug use or anything else along those lines, the girls wouldn't find another home.

random3 wrote:

whatthisguysaid wrote:

Couldn't agree more. I've seen it too many times with some of the top talent in programs I've worked for coaching, academic advising, and working in student-athlete services at the D1 level.

This is not the thread to blame the victims. This is all about the narcissistic coach.

Morons wrote:

If she's taking the blame on herself and stating she cut them because she didn't see potential it doesn't shut any doors for the girls to transfer. If she said she cut them for laziness, or dug use or anything else along those lines, the girls wouldn't find another home.

Are you really claiming she did them a favor by cutting them?

Beth Sullivan, coach at UT, needs to be held ACCOUNTABLE!

Kudos to Ben Frederickson at Knoxnews for breaking this story and keeping dirty college coaches like Beth Sullivan at the University of Tennessee, honest and honorable, as they are trusted with the lives of our children.

It's hard to fathom that in this day and age, we still have predatory college coaches that can just use, abuse and dispose of our young athletes like this with no repercussions. I say she needs to be held accountable and she need to go.

I wonder, did the athletic director Dave Hart know ahead of time what she was going to do to these girls? If he did, than he needs to be fired as well. Did the Chancellor of the school know ? This is a black eye for all of UT. It's absolutely OUTRAGEOUS. They were disposed of like garbage. These young women "committed" to Tennessee. Where is Tennessee's commitment to them? Certainly not honorable. They did not deserve to be treated so horribly. They did nothing wrong. They showed up ready to work hard and a couple of WEEKS into their first semester, and she dismisses them for NO reason??? C'mon....Where is her conscience? What kind of a wicked witch is this woman? How can she sleep at night? ( Maybe witches don't sleep.) Yes, college athletics is big business, but there is a level of decency we need to adhere to as adults, as coaches and as parents. These new recruits are fresh out of high school for pete's sake.

We, as parents of student athletes, need to PROTECT our children from vicious climbers like Beth Sullivan. Winning is great, but not at the expense of our girls.

Beth Sullivan should be fired immediately and I hope the families collectively sue for punitive damages. Can you imagine how traumatic this is for them? This is potentially devastating and life altering. They have been training since they were children with dreams of competing in college and quite possibly the olympics. Morgan Harvey of New Jersey won the gold watch at the Penn Relays last Spring for being the fastest female high school hurdler in America. She was recruited by Tennessee and then kicked off the team before she even got a chance to run. She signed a letter of commitment in good faith. She choses Tennessee over many other schools vying for her. She held up her end of the deal.

Jim Lambert of the Star Ledger has chronicled Morgan's career. I was hoping to watch her this year at the Penn Relays as a college athlete. Now, these girls are

"persona non grata" on campus and aren't even permitted to train properly. They are now denied access to the athlete's weight room. Denied access to the trainers. Denied access to the nutritionists. Denied access to college level coaching. Are they supposed to go out and buy hurdles and set them up themselves? Are they supposed to time themselves? Their times are measured in point zero zero hundredth's of a second! Are the supposed to hold their own blocks? It's unbelievable what she has done to them.

You can't just STOP training at this level of competition and stay competitive for the next year, wherever they may end up going. Anyone who has ever had a high school student search for a school knows how stressful it is. Now they are forced to scramble and find a place that can take them in the Spring. That must overwhelming for them. Any by the way girls.... keep up with your academics, because that's the most important reason you are at college! Oh, but coach Sullivan says they are allowed to finish out the academic year. Their scholarship sill be good for the rest of the year even though they are kicked off the team... BFD!

It doesn't work like that. Beth Sullivan has quite potentially ruined their lives. I hope to God she hasn't. It will take a really strong girl not to crumble under this pressure. Hopefully, they will survive this hurdle in life and go on to to thrive somewhere else. I hope coach Sullivan doesn't get one recruit next year. NOT ONE! Who in their right mind would allow their child to run for UT? Who would allow there kid to sign and play ANY sport for UT knowing their policy? Not me, that's for sure.

I thought we as a society had moved passed the practice of preying upon our young STUDENT athletes like we used to in the football arena. I thought we learned something. I guess not. In Coach Sullivan's world it's still ok. Tennessee should distance itself as fast they can from her and her dirty practices. She has blood on her hands. This is a wake up call America. This is not acceptable. WE need to STOP coaches like Beth Sullivan. WE need to protect our children from coaches like her. We need to say it's NOT ok. She needs to go. End of story.

Kara Givnish ( mother and coach of 4 athlete daughters)

random3 wrote:

Morons wrote:

If she's taking the blame on herself and stating she cut them because she didn't see potential it doesn't shut any doors for the girls to transfer. If she said she cut them for laziness, or dug use or anything else along those lines, the girls wouldn't find another home.

Are you really claiming she did them a favor by cutting them?

Are you really misunderstanding his point that badly? The coach isn't doing them a favor by cutting them, but may be doing them a favor by choosing not to disclose the reason for the cut. Not saying that this is the case, but if the cut is a result of the whole group doing something stupid, they're all better off if the coach keeps her mouth shut and simply moves them along without publicizing the reason.