But...but...but...Bolt is 6'5"!!!

Stone wrote:

Speaking of being dense, wow! That's right simpleton, if you have longer legs you will get there sooner if the speed is equal. Where did you go to school? You appear about 19 and unemployed.

Like talking to some kid.

Wait. Wait. Did you just say that "if you have longer legs you will get there sooner if the speed is equal."

Holy smokes, I LOVE this place!!!

Randy Moss was his leagues 60/200 champ while at Marshall.

Steve Williams was a 9.1 WR holder as was John Carlos.

6-5 inch Perrin Walker out of Georgia Texh was a National Champion.

Tommie Smith held 11 WR's in his day.

Mark Witherspoon was a 10.04 guy.

Reggie Jones at 6-4 was a 9.2 guy.

Steve Riddick an Olympian.

Look at what Obikwelu has accomnplished.

Carl Lewis!

Calvin Johnson can blow by any DB.

We have seen tall with speed, just none with the kind of speed that Bolt possesses.

You really don't get it do you? A 6-5 guy who runs like a 5.8 guy, except he has that stride.

Are you just not wanting to understand this?

I have completely written off "stone", I can't believe I devoted any time to him.

What a nutcase.

Yep, it really is just that simple.

You have no idea what you're talking about guy. Totally wrong and lost, not a clue.

Take away Bolt's 6-5 stride and he's a 9.75 guy. But you are too dense to understand this.

Thanks Stone - I think I get it now. Bolt is the first ever world class 6"5 sprinter. That's why he's SO much better than anyone who's ever lived.

I bet all the tall guys from the last thirty years are kicking themselves now - it could have been them if only they'd tried. And they could have done it without resorting to drugs! They just have longer strides than the short guys - it's so damn simple!

It's not really like that and I've made that clear. It's is combination of 200/400 ability (speed endurance) his start (unusual for a tall guy) and then his 6-5 stride. That combination is why it is on another level. Nobody else compares.

This appears to be way too complex/deep for Sprintwaanabe.

For every fast tall guy in the NFL I can name a shorter fast one. Your list proves nothing.

I will start with Darrel Green.

Do you even knows what's being talked about here? It's not short fast NFLers. So who was the fastest NFLer, you don't know do you?

So all this time I was wrong about Bolt, I always thought it was his height that gave him an advantage. I got faster as I got taller.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

"Sprinting isn't running"

Do you really believe sprinting is not running?

I divide such activities into 3 types:

walking

jogging

running

sprinting

each with its own particular movement, training, special adaptations, movements, range

Sprinting is more than just "very fast running", as running is more than just very fast jogging, etc.

Well, he also said "Why isn't every 6'5" person taller than every 5'10" person?"

Looking forward to reading what he has to write next. I have popcorn ready.

If we were to use scales ratios, that post was probably a top 5 in terms of relative wastes of space relative to the amount posted vs the amount that's relevant.

You're so in need of proving or getting everyone to agree that Bolt is on drugs that you ignore basic physics at the cost of looking completely foolish. Not only have you ignored the points given in favor or broad generalizations, you've failed to even counter the points in your generalizations...Being tall alone isn't why I said that being tall is and always has been an advantage in sprinting.

Here's a simple way to look at it.

Luc Longley of the Bulls was said to have a vertical leap of 13". Yao Ming I would assume is probably worse if that's even possible. Yao Ming was playing at 7'6" and weighed 311lbs. A height to weight ratio of about 41lbs per foot. Luc Longley was 7'2" and weighed 265lbs. A height to weight ratio of 37lbs for every foot. Clearly two guys who are on the opposite end of athleticism if you've ever watched them play. If we're using your logic, then myself and others should be under the assumption that Yao and Luc could be running 8.8 in the 100m since you assume that I think height alone is the key. However no one in their right might would look at those athletes and say..."yup that guy would run a great 100m if he was trained properly"....why is that?

Now why is Shaquille O'Neal 7'1" and 310lbs with a ratio of about 43lbs for every foot, CLEARLY a better athlete than Yao and Longley. Even the version of Shaq who got close to 335lbs was a much better athlete than those two. Why?

Do you know what the Reciprocal Ponderal Index is?

Look at their literal physical bodies. Yao Ming is visibly out of proportion....He's 7'6, yet has the shoulder width of someone who's much shorter and his wingspan is shorter than Shaq despite being 5 inches taller.

Is the picture beginning to get clearer. Is it possible that some tall athletes are better or more athletic than other tall athletes?

Francis Obikwelu/Ryan Bailey and Bolt are seperated by an inch in height. Yet it's pretty clear that the two share different body types and relative ratios of limb length. So yes, height alone isn't the SOLE determining factor. However proportionally, Bolt is built differently and the ratio of his "body parts" are clearly different. (Ex. Bolt has wider shoulders and a smaller waist than Obikwelu) What do those differences account for?

Asafa Powell and Wallace Spearmon are both listed as being 6'3". But even by simply looking at them side by side you can see some clear and obvious differences in body types and proportions. Wallace can't start and accelerate, Powell can. Using opinions alone, which of the two do you assume is the better athlete?

Lastly, there is a certain form that you can't or won't achieve without first having the requisite strength levels to achieve it. Athletes don't extend their stride and THEN get stronger to apply more force. They get stronger, which in turn provides more force application potential, which combined with the improved technique creates an extended stride. Bolt would NOT run slower with the same stride length at the same rate. If he ran slower, his stride length would practically have to be shorter. What you find impossible to believe is due to your own ignorance. In order for you to continue with the dialogue about him being on roids, you HAVE to believe that he's not in anyway superior to the other athletes. He can't possibly be gifted genetically AND doping, he has to just be doping. If he and every other sub9.8 guy is/was doping, why then is he faster? What's the MAIN difference between he and them?

Deacon, are you insane?

You've gone far downhill in my estimation.

You still haven't revealed the precise nature of your vested interest. Just Jamaican?

Are inarticulation and illogic required courses in the Jamaican school system, or does one achieve those through Jamaican extracurricular activities?

You are posting crap.

"The better athlete"? WTF does that even mean?

Powell vs Spearmon? WTF do you even mean? In the 100 or 200? See what I mean?

No kidding Bolt is built differently than Bailey. Dwight Howard is even more exaggerated than Bolt in those respects--does that make him a better 100m athlete?

"The better athlete", between Shaq, Yao, and Longley? WTF are you talking about, you mean the best 100m performer?

Bolt would not run slower with the same stride length at the same rate? Really? Is that a demonstration of your intellect?

"In order for you to continue with the dialogue about him being on roids, you HAVE to believe that he's not in anyway superior to the other athletes."

Bullcrap. I have said many times on here that he is BOTH doped AND quite possibly would have been one of the fastest clean guys ever, if not THE fastest clean guy ever, had he remained clean.

"If he and every other sub9.8 guy is/was doping, why then is he faster?"

He's not. Again, Johnson would have gotten there, at 9.79 on a mushy track with flexy Diadora spikes, waiting to take the record down further. Powell was .10 off by basic times, and Gay was already progressing to an assault on low/mid-9.6x this year before he was caught. Blake was very close at 9.70 basic to Bolt's best 9.62, until he got derailed this year; at his rate of progression, he would have been there this year had everything not erupted.

Furthermore, assuming the best clean all-time were actually clean, if any of them doped--ANY--they would be Bolt's equal, or maybe better--Bailey, Surin, Fredericks, heck even Lewis.

Unless Bolt goes to Muller-Wohlfahrt and dopes again this year, he will remain within the ranks of believability that he has already occupied this year, near the best all-time clean performances, at 9.87 and 9.86 basic. Yes, he might even go faster than that, and if he does, it will be due to both his natural talent, and extra ability he has gained through doping, both in the past and possibly this year. There is no telling how much he will have used, as it is impossible to measure his basic fitness on top of which the PED adds performance, unless he goes low-9.6x or below again.

And I'm being generous to him. Many believe he wouldn't be any better than a 10.0x/9.9x guy, like KBC. And you know what? I can't fault them for believing that, but I tend to be more generous.

Stone wrote:

Do you even knows what's being talked about here? It's not short fast NFLers. So who was the fastest NFLer, you don't know do you?

I'd say Bob Hayes was the fastest. After that I'd have a hard time choosing between the rest of the folks below:

Bob Hayes - 5' 11"

Ron Brown - 5' 11"

Willie Gault - 6' 0"

Darrell Green - 5' 9"

Bo Jackson - 6' 1"

Renaldo Nehemiah - 6' 1"

Deion Sanders - 6' 1"

Sprintgeezer wrote:You are posting crap.

The irony. Still, keep posting. I find this entertaining. It's so funny that you think there is this magical 9.86 barrier that is the limit, everything under that is impossible cleanly. You must be one of very few to think this way. What are your limits for other events, I wonder.

You guys, think about the REASONS.

It comes down to this: you are arguing that he has superior physiology, essentially to anybody who has ever tried sprinting in the past, as a result of a natural accident.

You don't know in what manner, or precisely how, yet you cling to this belief.

It is MUCH easier to believe that he has doped during his career, especially when all the evidence is considered.

And once again, the two things are NOT mutually exclusive--EVEN IF HE DOES HAVE NATURALLY SUPERIOR PHYSIOLOGY, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE NATURALLY HAS THE PHYSIOLOGY TO RUN 9.58

ESPECIALLY WHEN THE NEXT-CLOSEST POSSIBLE CLEAN TIME IS 9.85, AND WHEN EVEN THAT IS IN QUESTION.

EVEN IF HE IS PHYSIOLOGICALLY BETTER NATURALLY, THERE PLENTY OF EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT TO GET TO 9.58 HE HAS DOPED.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

You guys, think about the REASONS.

It comes down to this: you are arguing that he has superior physiology, essentially to anybody who has ever tried sprinting in the past, as a result of a natural accident.

You don't know in what manner, or precisely how, yet you cling to this belief.

It is MUCH easier to believe that he has doped during his career, especially when all the evidence is considered.

And once again, the two things are NOT mutually exclusive--EVEN IF HE DOES HAVE NATURALLY SUPERIOR PHYSIOLOGY, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE NATURALLY HAS THE PHYSIOLOGY TO RUN 9.58

ESPECIALLY WHEN THE NEXT-CLOSEST POSSIBLE CLEAN TIME IS 9.85, AND WHEN EVEN THAT IS IN QUESTION.

EVEN IF HE IS PHYSIOLOGICALLY BETTER NATURALLY, THERE PLENTY OF EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT TO GET TO 9.58 HE HAS DOPED.

What is the evidence - I enjoy watching you spin your wheels as you dig yourself in deeper and deeper. Please share it with us and do give us something tangible other than he is running .20s faster than then next guy so he got to be doped.