EZ10Miler wrote:
I havent seen a HADD thread in a long time.
I guess his principles still apply. Although I've tried, I have never really been able to follow his phase I through as systematically as described by, for instance, Pete. My heart rate appears to vary too much and I seem too prone to cardiac drift for the training approach to be enjoyable. Anyone with similar experience?
Nobody at all wrote:
EZ10Miler wrote:
I havent seen a HADD thread in a long time.
I guess his principles still apply. Although I've tried, I have never really been able to follow his phase I through as systematically as described by, for instance, Pete. My heart rate appears to vary too much and I seem too prone to cardiac drift for the training approach to be enjoyable. Anyone with similar experience?
I have not experienced anything you're describing. I worked on a Hadd approach last winter, but probably like so many others, I rushed it and didn't really settle in and let all the work and adaptations sink in. The result was a decent (for me) first marathon in the spring. But I think I have a lot more to work with. So this winter/spring I'm running through the whole, slow build up through the various HRs to see what I get. Supposedly I've got 10 more beats to train into for the marathon. If I can average 5 over what I did in spring I might consider it a major success. The good news is my paces right now at 150 are only a few seconds slower than my paces last year at 160.
But as to your experience, what kind of miles are you doing in general? It seems like cardiac drift issues would suggest low aerobic development, so maybe low miles? Or do you train in some strange weather? I hate using the HR in the heat and humidity of summer, and I can get reads all over the place at that time.
Well I often do around 50mpw, peaks around 70mpw. Weather conditions are all over the place. From -20 degrees Celsius in the winter to 30 degrees Celsius in the summer (I live in northern Sweden). I'm a heavy sweater which I guess contributes to cardiac drift, although there may be other factors at play as well.
Winter is coming which makes fast paced training challenging so I guess now would be a good time to get some base built. I'm just not sure what approach to take.
Hadds approach ("squeezing from the bottom of the tube") is really in stark contrast with more modern (?) approaches (canova, Hudson, Magness) who I believe use more of a funnel approach starting at the extremes (aerobic base and raw speed) to slowly shift towards more race-specific paces. Not saying that either is superior but I wonder what would benefit an amateur such as myself best.
I hear you on the winter. Early on I find the paces are much better with the cooler weather. But then comes extra dark and questionable footing with snow and ice.
As for the best approach, of course I have no idea. I like the Hadd workouts and the progression seems to fit my personality, so I'm going to give it a go (our mileages are similar). However, I agree that the newer approaches are quite a bit different, and those draw me some, too. So I'm actually adding some light work at paces from 5K up to HM about once every 7 to 10 days (similar to the way Hudson adds speed to the fundamental stages of his training programs). My hope is it is just enough of mixed training to help me stay on top of everything but not so much that I detract from the actual Hadd program. Guess I'll find out next year.
I'm also appealed by the systematic approach of Hadd but, as I mentioned, I haven't really had success when I've tried it. Whether that's a consequence of me failing to actually follow the approach or if I'm not a good fit (physiologically) for the training system I don't know..
I would like to give it another shot but at the same time I hear a lot of talk about "not leaving any part of running fitness behind for too long" and"touching on all paces year round", which makes me shy away from placing all eggs in "Hadds bottom-up approach" basket.
Maybe I'll try a mix similar to yours. Mostly aerobic runs, HR-based tempo progressions alarm Hadd, and sprinkle in some faster (5k/10k) stuff every second week or so. And also strides/hill sprints following easy runs 3 times per week or so.
Nobody at all wrote:
Maybe I'll try a mix similar to yours. Mostly aerobic runs, HR-based tempo progressions alarm Hadd, and sprinkle in some faster (5k/10k) stuff every second week or so. And also strides/hill sprints following easy runs 3 times per week or so.
That should read "tempo progressions a'la Hadd". Damn autospell..
The issue I had with HR training of any type, HADD or not, is that it just seemed to be another way of measuring the same thing. If my HR of 150=X pace, then I'll just train at X pace.
My HR seems to fluctuate wildly so I found it very difficult to get accurate work in due to temperature fluctuations, my sleep, diet, etc.. I live in the South and there are days in the summer where it's so hot that my HR would be very high, but as with my previous statement, as it heats up, the paces get slower.
Another thing is having to deal with a HRM, that stinks. Rather just use a watch and keep it simple.
I'm not saying HADD is wrong, just not for me.
willywanka wrote:
Another thing is having to deal with a HRM, that stinks.
The HRM literally stinks, or it stinks to have to wear it?
rhinetalrunner wrote:
willywanka wrote:
Another thing is having to deal with a HRM, that stinks.
The HRM literally stinks, or it stinks to have to wear it?
Both
I wrote out, at great length, both here on LR and over at TNFnorth, what this looked like in my own narrow experience. For the life of me I can't locate either discussion, maybe somebody else remembers where the bodies are buried...
Super Mass Gainer 12lbs