Discussion of Deadspin's Article: The Sexual Harassment Claims That Brought Down Toledo’s XC Coach

My daughter ran against one of his runners in high school. Nice kid with nice family. And then she went far from home to run with him. Really a shame.

I listened to his podcast, which was very bad because he just wanted to hear himself talk (blather) and didn't let his guests even talk.

Geez, dude, you're a lowly running coach in Toledo. How you can have such an ego in a position like that is really sad.

There is a lot wrong with women's college running, from this sort of thing to the epidemic of eating discorers to the intra-team competition that wrecks teams. I'd LOVE to see SI write a piece on Hadsell and his ilk.

I'm fairly sure that Hadsell has posted on this thread. Some of the posts that tear down his accuser echo the behavior that the Deadspin article described: attacking her character, implying she's crazy, repeatedly asserting that the van story didn't happen (from different names, natch), and just generally being manipulative.

QuitBeingIgnorant wrote:

Also, the truth is going to come out very soon. I promise you that. It won't be so funny then.

I must admit that you're right, there is a lot more that belongs in the story, but it goes way beyond these current women and only further condemns Hadsell. Why are we not hearing from these other women in the article? Take a quick look at the disgusting smear campaign throughout this thread alone, and it becomes pretty obvious.

The program wasn't very successful....Where are the NCAA titles??? Don't get so bent out of shape your pimp-wannabe got fired. Also, I'm kind of 90 percent sure that's that creep posting. You look like a manipulative SOB by trying to ruin your accusers reputation.

Whaaaaa ? The program wasnt successful? No NCAA titles but definitely NCAA appearances that's big for a mid-American conference school.... I believe that the program was on it's way in being top 4 nationally in my opinion. Anyways when it comes down to it Emma threw herself at Hadsell right after she found out her roommate, Caitlin, was allegedly in a relationship with him. Simple as that. I'd like to get Caitlin's opinion on all of this .....

If anyone knew this Kertesz chick they would know that she isn't a victim nor is that in her nature.

Whatislovedonthatemenomore wrote:

Whaaaaa ? The program wasnt successful? No NCAA titles but definitely NCAA appearances that's big for a mid-American conference school.... I believe that the program was on it's way in being top 4 nationally in my opinion. Anyways when it comes down to it Emma threw herself at Hadsell right after she found out her roommate, Caitlin, was allegedly in a relationship with him. Simple as that. I'd like to get Caitlin's opinion on all of this .....

If anyone knew this Kertesz chick they would know that she isn't a victim nor is that in her nature.

Bravo!!!!

(chomping on popcorn, with a tear coming down my face)

This has provided great entertainment. Please continue this tomorrow.

Here is a quote from someone on another Board about the supposedly 'excellent coach':"I read through the Deadspin materials, and would take issue with just one of their interpretive comments: "...by all accounts Hadsell was an excellent coach..." (or something very close to that phrase). So the guy produced some winning teams at UT, and so some athletes did well. But by the accounts we now have in front of us, he was an awful coach. I wasn't born yesterday, and I am a flawed person myself, and I know what kinds of persons and personalities can flourish as sports coaches, but ... for a college coach, this guy and his manipulative cult of personality or whatever you might call it, was far from "excellent." No evidence of regard for the athletes' well-being at all, unless it happened to coincide with his skewed, selfish desires and ambitions."Even aside from his multiple indiscretions, any one of which justify his departure, I think that he is a coach that got good results in the standings but not necessarily good results for the athletes overall. I am particularly alarmed at the comments about weight and body. Anyone that thinks have a coach pushing his opinions on that topic is an 'excellent coach' should go read some of the stories about people like Kathy Ormsby (the college record holder who ran off the track 6k though the NCAA 10,000m, climbed a fence, ran on to a bridge and jumped, paralyzing herself). After that incident in the 1980s I heard that many coaches indicated that there were many female runners with serious eating issues. It was a wake-up call and many heeded the message but Hadsell apparently did not give a damn about the ramification of his actions and statements. How many parents would be happy to have their daughters go to a school with a coach having his attitude? I know I would not even entertain the thought of a daughter of mine going there, period. To think that many/most of the women come out of there. I find this 'sentiment/assertion' particularly troubling: "MANY girls have gone through the program and benefited from it in many ways and are now well-adjusted, well-educated, contributing members of our society." How many of them will have trouble trusting authority figures, mentors, etc., to actually have their best interest at heart? His behavior is appalling, the environment he cultivated is not something to be proud of.

on its way to top 4 nationally...pleeeez makes no difference anyway...coach is predator socio-path that needs help - get him some or should i say get yourself some kevin.

I think that all the antagonist parties who are saying nothing in regards to this thread should probably find another hobby. I am talking about you, Popcorn Chomper.

With that being said, I think that both people involved are guilty in one way or another. I guess we will find out? Does anyone know what further actions are being taken by the university or what Emma Kertesz has to say about this? These threads are getting crazy!

Let us Run wrote:

I'm fairly sure that Hadsell has posted on this thread.

And I am far more sure that he has not even looked at this or the other thread about him since the Blade and Deadspin stories came out. As in 100 percent certain. His seeing those was more than enough for one person in one week, and it's not as if anyone needs to actually see what's being posted to have a clear idea of the content. Ignorant nameless people on Web sites like this one are nothing if not predictable.

future plans wrote:

Since you know Kevin so well... Do you have plans to find another coaching job somewhere... I mean does Kevin have plans to find another coaching job somewhere?

No, in fact, he faxed his resume to the Vatican just yesterday since a high-level position just opened up there. (Part of that sentence was in jest.)

In the unlikely event more than a smattering of people here are interested in facts, here are a few.

* Kevin Hadsell has a copy of his cell-phone records from June of last year through December of last year. The number of calls he placed to "Andrea" during this span: zero. The number of times he saw her outside the work environment: zero. That doesn't exonerate him from the contact he *did* have with her, but it puts their whole "relationship" in a much different light than the Deadspin article would have people think.

* Somewhere in this mess was the claim that Kevin would refuse to pay attention to "Andrea" unless he responded to her texts. It's a mystery as to why anyone would make this up, because it is easily disproven. Kevin says that during his entire time at Toledo, he would send out the week's training to his athletes every Monday, in one e-mail, to everyone on the team. So if he had dropped someone's training from these r-mails, everyone else on the list would have seen it. Anyone from the team could comment on this, but but I don't blame anyone one bit for steering clear.

* The guy who wrote the Deadspin article, Doug Brown, wanted what any hack journalist in the employ of a tabloid wants: to break the story first. So, rather than get the text messages through the Ohio Freedom of Information act, like the Toledo Blade did, he got them from "Andrea" herself.

Some have suggested here that "Andrea" may have doctored the texting exchanges between herself and Kevin. That would be an understatement of colossal proportions, because the extent to which she must have done so would have required an investment of many hours. It happens that Kevin obtained a print-out of his texts for October 2012 at some point before all of this hit the fan (or anyone even felt the slightest breeze from it) because he needed to get some phone numbers pertaining to his recruiting efforts. What this print-out shows is that there were nearly 1,100 texts exchanged between Kevin and "Andrea" in October alone, with hers slightly outnumbering his, and that on 21 of the 31 days of that month, she was the one who initiated the "conversation." (He has no plans to make anyone's life more miserable using this "evidence.")

While this, again, doesn't in any way change the fact that each and every sexually explicit or suggestive text he sent was absolutely wrong and in and of itself made him the wrong person for the job her held, it certainly throws into question other people's claims that Kevin was some kind of sociopathic monster who ruled by fear and aimed to bang his way across not only all of Ohio's college campuses but maybe the rest of the U.S. as well. What seems more plain is that he's a guy who pissed away his job by repeatedly coming on to women he shouldn't have. As a few people have emphasized with varying degrees of coherence, anyone in his position has the onus to *not* flirt with members of the team or respond to such flirting, *period*. No wiggle room there. It was bound to catch up with him and this time it did, and in the grand scheme of things, the fact that someone who evidently has plenty of shadiness to her own credit was at the center of his final unraveling doesn't matter. In fact, maybe it was even fitting.

On a final note, no, if you're wondering, Kevin didn't put me up to this, and will most likely never even read it.

Well said KMB.

KMB wrote:What this print-out shows is that there were nearly 1,100 texts exchanged between Kevin and "Andrea" in October alone, with hers slightly outnumbering his, and that on 21 of the 31 days of that month, she was the one who initiated the "conversation." (He has no plans to make anyone's life more miserable using this "evidence.")

I realize I've been coming off as rather aggressive in this thread thus far, but serious question: how would know this information and be passing it on if he didn't plan to make it known(which is essentially the same as using it as evidence, given the nature of the discussion and story being broken, and since not many besides the running community here is likely to care)?

Did he not tell you this/pass it on to you because he wanted you to know? Which is therefore making it publicly known (or giving the opportunity for you to pass it on which makes it publicly known)?

Saying he doesn't want it out there to ruin anyone's life is a little silly right after you've put the info out there for everyone to see.

But I do agree with you. Regardless of the nature of the relationship between Kertesz and Hadsell, he has no room at all to defend himself for his actions w/ her (or with any other athletes on his teams)...what he did was wrong, absolutely a fire-able offense(s), and the people smearing Kertesz as defense for Hadsell are sort of missing the point that any girl he slept with on his team could be the worst person on earth and he'd still be entirely in the wrong.

And thank you for at least posting coherently, which the other people jumping up to "defend" him certainly have not.

I'm guessing you have no intention of verifying the truth of the drunk driving/drinking on the job claims?

Ahh, interesting questions raised to KMB. Perhaps you've exposed some insight to the validity, or lack thereof, of KMB's statements.

And regardless, in the court of public opinion Hadsell is a major creepster (at best)

To quote Workaholics, "Who wears a puka shell necklace?"

Voice of Reason, you are entirely correct saying that any girl he slept with could be the worst person on earth and he would still be guilty. However, I think that some of the earlier posts are trying to convey that Kertesz was not a victim in the situation, but instead was a willing participant. You cannot call someone out for sexually harassing you if were provoking it/being a consensual participant. I am quite curious to hear the other side of the story, as I'm sure you are.

I think that's all they were trying to say!

Also, I am curious about those drunk driving allegations myself. Does anyone have proof of that? Legitimate proof?

Fair enough. He wanted me to know since he knew that to this point I'd been getting my "information" from a tabloid and a daily newspaper, and while he didn't tell me one way or the other how to act, if it all, he didn't swear me to silence, either.

I don't see it that way. It's not going to ruin "Andrea's" life to have it put out there that she warped their text exchange in the extreme and that he could prove this if he had to. It may, and hopefully will, make people think twice about agreeing with everything in a sensationalism-first Web site like Deadspin just because some of what is in there is undeniably true. I really abhor garbage journalism in all its forms, no matter what the issue is or who the targets are. Sites like Deadspin and many, many others bank on the human tendency to believe the absolute worst about a person or situation once that door has been cracked open in any way.

Hadsell made a long series of gave mistakes in his dealings with "Andrea" and I actually feel bad for her, not in a pitying way but in a human one, if she's struggling with some of the problems her teammates say or suggest that she is. Those texts he sent, no matter how many others were erased or redacted or translated into Mongol for the benefit of people wandering the Gobi Desert with iPhones, establish that beyond a doubt and everything else is, as Smash Mouth put it, spice for the recipe.

I honestly didn't think to ask him. His runners know a lot more about that aspect of things than I do. I just hope the part about Crown Royal in a McDonald's cup isn't true, because he should know better by now than to eat at McDonald's. I mean come on.

notbeingignorantanymore wrote:

Yes Let's wonder if that REALLY HAPPENED. Where's the proof? If I said the former assistant coach hooked up with a student athlete while she was coaching at Toledo would people believe that? I slander anyone and from the likes of this deadspin article.. nothing is the truth. PEOPLE you can't always believe what you read. Especially from an article written by Doug Brown.

Also, have any of these girls come forward and used there names? Where is the proof. Deadspin's only source of information is Emma Kertez herself and maybe of a few of her "best" friends.

They cited getting this story (driving while drinking) from five athletes that they contacted, with at least one saying that he did so in October at the Wisconsin Invite.

The story from the news station was not very flattering either. At the end the anchor asked the reporter if he thought Hadsell would coach again; the answer was something like 'does not seem likely' or even stronger.

Another thing; if the texts are correct, when Hadsell talked with the admin/AD in October he apparently gave them the story that he had only been sleeping with the former student once she became a former student. But, in the texts he is saying things like 'they can't prove I was sleeping with her before', they do not have any hard evidence.' If the texts are correct [some have been questioned but the paper has them so eventually there is solid info there] then he was lying to the admin/AD in October.

Let's try a thought experiment. A priest is in charge of 10 altar boys. He sleeps with one of them. Thorough investigation reveals that:

(1) The priest slept with the altar boy.

(2) The other nine think the priest is an awesome guy and inspirational leader.

(3) The other nine think that the victim is the worst person they ever encountered.

(4) The victim has lured the priest in by sending him provocative naked photos of himself 50 times a day.

(5) The victim has psychological issues and has lied on multiple occasions in the course of trying to destroy the priest's life.

To me, it's clear that once you've established point 1, points 2-5 are essentially irrelevant. There are no mitigating factors for the priest sleeping with the altar boy. None.

Now, I realize that many people would dispute the analogy, because college-aged women are adults and altar boys are not. I understand that this is a reasonable topic for debate. My personal opinion -- and the one that underlies the rules at most educational institutions -- is that the coach-athlete dynamic (or, similarly, the teacher-student dynamic) creates a unique situation that is so vulnerable to abuse that you have to have a blanket rule forbidding any relationship. I realize many 21-year-old women will disagree with this assessment of their decision-making autonomy; on the other hand, I suspect some will feel differently when they look back in 30 years.

Anyway, my main point is that all these posts attacking the source for the Deadspin article are (a) irrelevant and (b) grotesquely malicious. As KMB has admitted, Hadsell did enough that her character is no more relevant than the length of skirt worn by a rape victim. That doesn't mean people should pile on and make up extra accusations about Hadsell. But "he was a great coach" is simply not relevant here.

Was Vergote the assistant coach who lived with Hadsell before she switched to coaching a different team?

KMB wrote:...

Thanks for your response, KMB. I'm not sure we'd ever agree wholly on some aspects of this situation, and I can understand how some friendship/professional relationship with the "accused" (so to speak) will give you a different view on the situation.

But I just think (and you've agreed, so I'm probably just repeating myself) that any unsavory personalities or participation by girls on the team are utterly irrelevant. Whatever Emma Kertesz is like (or any of the other girls) and whatever her motivations are, even if (hypothetically) one of them was prancing around naked in Hadsell's house when he came home one night, don't make him any kind of victim because he's clearly pretty messed up -- very juvenile, no understanding of boundaries, quite unprofessional, etc.

I mean, a well adjusted adult who takes their job seriously (instead of as some extended series of perks) can just NOT be involved with a girl. Or even, like, when you are in college -- your best friend's girlfriend asks you to sleep with her. If you're a decent person, you don't. If you DO sleep with her, you're a scumbag no matter how much she begged you.

I have no doubt some of the girls on Toledo's team are riddled with their own emotional problems -- what group of young people, especially a women's xc team (which are notorious for problems of grudges, eating disorders, whatever), isn't?

A responsible adult handles the situation. An effed up man-child who shouldn't be within 100 miles of the job he's lucky to have behaves like Coach Hadsell.

Some of my best friends in college were thoroughly messed up (emotionally, maturity-wise) female XC runners -- I never felt the urge to abuse their own problems to indulge my desire to get off. Or to wield power over other people.

He did. He deserves what he gets, regardless of anything else. And no matter what other texts were sent by either party, his own texts show a pretty messed up, narcissistic guy without an ounce of self control or respect for other peoples boundaries.

Because again, no matter what Kertesz is like (or what her agenda was), no adult authority figure should send any of the texts he sent. No one.