Did Shalane Flanagan screw Notosha Rogers?

you explained it yourself wrote:

Look at the splits, 1st 5k vs 2nd 5k.

The runners were on pace for the A from the start, prior to Flanagan blocking them from the front. Watch Lisa Uhl's interview. Flanagan told her in the race she was going to slow everyone down, and she did.

They were never 'on pace' until Hastings took over and by then they were too far out. Meier tried to get them there but even she fell short. This has nothing to do with Flanagan no matter what she might have said or done. The field chose not to pursue proper pace for a qualifier.

You're not going to piss off Nike by bashing one of their athletes when you don't have a sponsorship deal. Tons of upside. I hope she gets into a strong training group.

800m coach 235 wrote:

Ol Grumpus wrote:

Why does everyone keep saying things like "spoiled brat" and "cry me a river"? Has anyone even suggested, much less provided evidence, that Rogers complained at all? Only a poster here complained. Stop insulting Rogers unless you have some evidence to base it on.

I noticed this too. Wake up posters. She never complained.

ktrout wrote:

I did watch the race. Rogers wasn't going anywhere. She was sitting content on the outside. Even lets Hastings go around her. Your comment about how it may have been Bawcom who clipped her shows how bad your recollection is. Watch the video for a memory - jogger.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/track-and-field/amy-hastings-comes-back-wins-10k-at-trials.html

Explain to me how one runner can impede 20 runners?

Thanks for the link.

And yes, it was Bawcom

just kidding, really wrote:

Thanks for the link.

And yes, it was Bawcom

Thank goodness you aren't an official. Maier bumped Rogers into Bawcom. So while Rogers fell down from running into Bawcom, it wasn't Bawcom who initiated the contact.

I have lost respect for Shalane Flanagan. Hope she realizes her marketability has gone WAY down among other runners. She cost Natosha Rogers an Olympic berth. She had no business destroying a young woman's Olympic dream like that. No one did that to her.

and the winner for the 2012 Let's Run US Olympic Trials "Sexiest Thread Title" goes to...

ktrout wrote:

I missed the race. How did Shalane slow down the entire field? Did she threaten them? Put up barriers? Roll barrels like Donkey Kong?

You see this is Middle School. Shalane is the popular, mean girl. The other girls are afraid that if they don't do what Shalane and her clique does they will get made fun of like the nerdy, smart girl with braces and freckles.

Shalane is the ULTIMATE mean girl. She and Lisa Uhl should be ashamed of themselves. That college girl (Rogers) deserves to be on the team. She looked fluid, she had guts, she didn't have her Mean Girl BFF to smooth the way for her. Hope Shalane and Lisa's sponsors realize the lost $$$ cost by their antics. This is about the Olympic dream and fans don't take kindly to those kind of shenanigans. Rich pro runners ganging up on a couple college girls who had a real shot?

Shalane missed making Footlocker Nationals for four straight years in high school. She of all people should know how hard it is to lose your dream. Natosha deserves to be on that team, not Mean Girl Lisa Uhl . Shalane won't be in the Olympic prelims to babysit her .

"I missed the race. How did Shalane slow down the entire field? Did she threaten them? Put up barriers? Roll barrels like Donkey Kong?"

Every time someone tried to pass her, Shalane shot them a dirty look, forcing them to slow down. She will lose her sponsor over this and probably be banned from the sport.

The other runners recognized the bad karma that would ensue except for Rogers and Maier who were severely punished by fate for challenging the Goddess Nike and her disciples on earth. Rogers pushed on anyway and her wings melted as she got too close to the A standard.

ktrout wrote:

Straw man fallacy.

I was thinking red herring fallacy, myself.

this is absurd - it is a race and Shalane did no blocking or anything unethical. A runner in a race is free to speed up and slow down for whatever reason she wishes, as long as there is no impeding.

Here's a scenario - Shalane wants to have Uhl 100% motivated as a training partner for the last weeks - so maybe SF's act was purely selfish to help her do well in London. Would that make SF's pace change acceptable to the complainers?

This argument is silly.

agip wrote:

this is absurd - it is a race and Shalane did no blocking or anything unethical. A runner in a race is free to speed up and slow down for whatever reason she wishes, as long as there is no impeding.

Here's a scenario - Shalane wants to have Uhl 100% motivated as a training partner for the last weeks - so maybe SF's act was purely selfish to help her do well in London. Would that make SF's pace change acceptable to the complainers?

This argument is silly.

It would be silly if it were an argument.

--It is a lets run circle jerk.

Kara ran the US Champs HM. Desi probably won't race, she's with Hanson's remember?

Sagarin wrote:

Well, this is where we differ. Using that logic, why didn't Goucher and Davila run it? I'm sure Shalane picked up some extra money for it, especially with Uhl making the team, but I don't see the nobility in it. That said, the excuses for Rogers are just lame. She and a few others could've put the hammer down. She didn't make excuses for herself, and there's no guarantee she would've hit the standard anyway. She had a huge PR as it was.

Typical Schumacher tricks! If she ran for a guy like al Sal she would have pushed the pace so that we had people running the trials standard

I don't think Rogers went in thinking I can shave a minute off my PR and make the Olympics. If she did her race tactics suck. It's not a time trial it's a race, ritz is different since he is a low 27 guy on a good day and placed exactly where he stands in the us 10000 field as of right now. When I race and I want to PR I don't sit on anybody. Hammer out hard and lets the chips fall, sometimes it doesn't work out and blows up in your face. She ran great hopefully she can improve and get into a good group and make the WC next time around. The only person slowing you down in a race is yourself. Ritz was out front and would have stayed out front the whole race if he had too, although Derrick probably would have grabbed the 3rd spot if that was the case. So if Rogers wants to be a baller she's got to run like a baller, gun to tape if need be.

While it would have been cool to see Rogers make the team after her unexpected fabulous performance, you really cant crucify Shalane for her racing tactics that day.

It was not in her or Uhl's interest for anyone new to hit the A that day - as was pointed out by wejo. I figured Shalane was in it for a marathon paced (or slightly faster) workout and to help her teammate and of course also to pick up prize or bonus $. Simple as that. Kind of like the reverse of the Rupp/Ritz deal.

Everyone in the race had to figure that neither she nor the people who already hit the A were gonna take it out hard.

As a ridiculous counterpoint - Did Rupp and Ritz screw over the slower guys (who maybe had great kicks) in the mens race by taking the pace out too hard and thereby depriving the slower guys of a chance to kick for a national championship at the end of the race? Not.

I have to admit that Shalane did what Natosha could not when she was at her first OT. She had the A-standard going in and she made the team at 22.(almost 23)

2004: 11th in semifinals at the Olympic Games 5,000m (15:34.63); 3rd at Olympic Trials 5,000m (15:10.52) and 6th in 1,500m (4:11.05); 7th in 1,500m at Pre Classic (4:09.27); 3rd at Boston (15:05.08); 1st at Mt. SAC (15:09.67); 14th at World XC 4 km (13:34); 1st at USA 4 km XC (12:26); 4th place in Boston Indoor Games 1500m (4:13.55)

My hats off to Rogers who had a great June and with a little better luck might have slipped onto the team.

I'd watch that